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Welcome to The Vermillion Podcast, a free audio library of business strategies, creative inspiration and industry knowledge for actors, filmmakers, writers and anyone looking to activate their creative potential. I'm Nisha Culver, a writer director who helps artists build the careers that they dream of. I really hope that this podcast inspires you in some way. Thanks for tuning in.
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My guest this evening is an incredible singer songwriter,
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actor
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and musician, Kate Eberstadt. I'm so honored to have you here, Kay. Thank you for being here. Thank you for having me. I'm so honored to finally be on this podcast. I've been listening.
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That's really huge. The other thing about Kate that I'm really, really proud to say is that she is my friend.
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Likewise. Thank you.
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maybe the best of all.
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So,
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Kate, the number one thing going on in your life right now, I'm guessing,
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is your album.
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That is correct. Yes.
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It's taken over my life like a parasite. But in the best of ways.
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The album is called Heaven on Earth. Yes. It just released. Can you tell us a little bit about what kind of music it is and also,
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the genesis of the album. Totally. Yeah.
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So the kind of music on Heaven on Earth, we've been calling it existential pop recently.
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But
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I would say it falls in like the indie pop category, but it also leans on,
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both my background as a singer songwriter and my producer Jake Crocker's background.
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I came from like a choral music background and classical music background, and he also was a choir kid. So I would say that there's some
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orchestral moments, some choral moments, pop moments, dance moments. So it takes you on a journey.
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Cool. How many songs are on the album? There are nine songs that made it onto the album.
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How many didn't make it on? That is such a good question. And
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so several of the songs almost didn't make it on.
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The song Heaven on Earth was the first song that Jake and I worked on together, and often the first song that you work on with somebody is like a throw away almost. You're figuring out how you work with a producer and a songwriter together.
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But that song, which is in this now very stripped back Imogen Heap vocoder style,
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started as a four on the floor like dance song about starting with Suicidal ideation. Like, we went like hard on that first song.
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And,
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then we
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that song got a little too crazy. So we put it down for a long time and we were like, this is the song where we learned how to work with each other.
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But then we ended up bringing it back at the very end when,
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my grandfather, who I was living with at the time, went into hospice,
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and that
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the text in that song took on a totally different meaning.
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I was in Seattle with Jake, and I booked a flight that night. We're ready to go back to be with my granddad before he passed, and we recorded that song in like three hours,
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stripped it completely back so that song almost didn't make it.
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And then Father John White Camp, which is another stripped back song, almost didn't make it because it was also Once Upon a Time, like a pop record. Yeah. So there were a few things that we started left and then came back to at the very end and took everything away.
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Yeah. And how do you find that your after training informs your work as a musician and singer.
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That is such a good question.
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I find them so linked to each other. Actor training helped me become a better storyteller completely. And I will sing his praises until I die. But Jade McCarty, who's both of our
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teacher
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acting teacher,
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taught me how to think about story in a completely different way. And when I was writing this record, I was in conservatory at the beginning of when I started writing this record in New York.
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Yes, at the studio in New York.
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And I was playing
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various characters, but Blanche was one who I was working through at the time. I was turning 30 and entering my 30s. She's 30. She thinks her life. She's 30? Yeah. She looks 50. Yeah. And she felt 50, right? Like,
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if
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at that time,
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there were things that I related to in that character that I really didn't want to see.
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And I was thinking about Blanche and
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in various of the songs, I can see this scene study coming through, like in the song to Michelle. I'm a part of that, to me, is also,
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about the newspaper boy scene with Blanche where she's imagining this fantasy of romance for just a minute. She gets to experience it, and then it disappears.
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Yeah. And so to me, was the newspaper boy in my mind. Wow. This is the second time that Tennessee Williams has come up on the podcast. I know, yeah, it's one of my favorite playwrights. Yeah. Your alma.
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Well, remember. Yes. I'm burning up with my desire. I would love to see if I. Well, honestly. Yeah.
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I recently had a return to acting in a film, and,
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my friend just gave me a straight offer. I didn't even audition for it. Oh, cool. And it was cool to be back
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in the saddle with acting.
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Yeah. Well, what was that like for you to be back after directing and writing for this time?
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I started directing the film. Oh, really? You're, like, in the scene? Yeah. Certain scenes. I was like, why are you filming in there? This room is already set. We should film this room as much nicer. And the director's like, yeah, you're right.
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The director brain was just on. Yeah. Well, you know, I found myself protecting myself as an actor and trying to make sure that I was,
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well represented and that the shots were going to
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come out well.
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So it's a fine line between open communication with actor and director and taking over. I really tried not to take over.
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I'm most proud it was successful. But I think that ultimately will yield a better product at least for my footage.
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So in that sense it was like advocacy I would say.
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Totally. And I knew what the language
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to just shorthand it because the thing you don't want to do is like take up a whole bunch of time
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being this vacuum of attention and need on the day
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if you have
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something you have to communicate, just do it quickly and efficiently and and well, yeah,
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it's in the service of the story, right?
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That's what we were taught in conservatory. Is that your
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job as an actor is to serve the story. And
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that kind of
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brings me back to like
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how I see songwriting and acting is so connected to, because
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you're telling the story. And what I do as a songwriter is in pursuit of the story or the emotion, the story of the song, and you're always playing a version of yourself, even if you're
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being completely honest.
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that's
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where craft comes in. Like
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you're becoming a version of yourself in a song or it's a song is like capturing a postcard of a moment in time of yourself, and then you play that character over and over again. Or at least like for me in the live show, I'm like playing that part of me and finding it in real time, too.
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I guess that makes a lot of sense. And I've heard musicians talk like that, but I think maybe this is the first time that I'm actually thinking about music as storytelling, like the first time in my life. Yeah, totally. Yeah. There's this storytelling rule of when it comes to writing, just like in film, there's
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the script, and then there's the doing of like when you get to the microphone and you are recording the song, and then there's all of the storytelling of the editing process, which similarly in music to film, it's an editors medium, you know.
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And then there's the actual moment on stage and what you choose to,
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perform in that moment or express.
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Wow. So what are some of the stories that you tell on Heaven on Earth? Available on Spotify and Apple Music. Oh, I can't read everywhere else. That music can be found.
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Well, you asked like what the origin of the record was, and I was reflecting on that before coming here.
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And I started the record four years ago now, which is crazy. Yeah, some projects just take their sweet time maturing, especially when you're a perfectionist.
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And,
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there were a few things happening at the same time.
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One was that I
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was turning 30.
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And I had always imagined checkpoints happening by that
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stage in my life.
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As I'm sure a lot of people do. I thought I would be on the cover of Vanity Fair. Right. Like, genuinely, from an artistic level, they were things that I thought that I would have blown up by then, and I would have had my huge break, probably when I was like 25. Right? Yeah.
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And,
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that had not yet happened.
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And I had been making work
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and
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doing the work and the grind and like, nothing had popped off.
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Also, like, on a personal level, I thought that I would be married and have kids at that point.
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And I grew up in a, like, pretty traditional family, and,
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it wasn't even that that expectation was put on me.
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Like, I put that on myself. And that's what I imagine. I did not imagine no alternative to that. That had not happened. I was in a relationship that was falling apart slowly. And you know that feeling when like the rug is being pulled out from under you so slowly, like something's shifting and it just looks like they're fading away.
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Like in a dream. Yeah. Yeah. Further and further. And like, I know that you're standing in front of me, but you're kind of not here anymore.
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And,
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so I could feel that falling apart, and then also,
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some of the people I spent the most time with in New York were just either leaving, moving out to other places.
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My sister, who was like my best friend and I had lived together and worked together for so long, and she was moving into a new chapter of her life.
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Then one of my best friends,
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was diagnosed with terminal cancer.
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Well,
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she's actually doing quite well now, and we can get into that even.
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but at the time, it was, you know, pretty terrifying. And then also
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my grandfather, who was, like, one of also the closest people in my life, was dying as well. So, like, all of these different things were happening. So a lot of my life was changing and there was so much transition. And,
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I just didn't know what the future looked like.
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And there was so much anxiety that came with that. And I also was having I forgot if I said this already, but,
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debilitating migraines were all gone. Yeah.
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I was diagnosed with chronic migraine disorder around that time, so I was I had gotten migraines before in my life, but I was getting like 10 to 15 per month at that point.
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Yeah. Like every other day? Yeah. It was a lot. It was like a part time job to just, like, fix that problem or try to get help for that problem.
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Well,
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that's a great question. And I went every route I possibly could go. Like, I tried to get help from medical, western medicine. Eastern medicine. I got to a point where I thought maybe this is a spiritual problem.
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Like,
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you know,
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body keeps the score of my body connection. Yeah. And I was like,
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that pushed me into a spiritual inquiry that I would not have gotten into otherwise.
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So God sent you the migraines. I honestly think it's very possible that's heaven on earth. That,
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I think that when you're not aligned, your body can just start to shut down.
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And I was having to ask bigger questions like, why am I shutting down? What's happening now? And so this is so strange, like a cauldron of things happening in the pot that started this record.
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And I wrote, like 30 completely insane demos on my computer. And that's where we started, bro. Yeah. Oh, my God, you make me want to go make an album.
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should. We should. Honestly.
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I actually found a bunch of old tracks from when I was a DJ in my early 20s,
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and I had, like, Ableton Live or. Oh, yeah, and I sent them to my boyfriend, Jack. And. And he's like,
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This is
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absolutely legit. You have to send these to me now. Like after I finish this, remix it.
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Yeah. Yeah. I mean, yeah, I'll executive produce your album. Sick. Yeah.
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I actually had a music video too that I
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lost. So just beeping curse. I'm a podcast. But yeah, I had a music video of like a bunch of old sailing footage, from the 80s and these like, yacht rock dudes. And it was. And then I lost, I think I just uploaded it to Myspace, only,
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but I mean, that was that was the peak music, right?
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Like, Lily Allen came from Myspace.
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Yeah. Shout out to Lily Allen's new record. Yeah. Shout out to that entire
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tour of their house that I watched well before the bomb drop. Oh, really? And I thought it was weird when
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that. You're psychic. Yeah. So you knew you could see the whole story unfold? Yeah. Yeah. Well, I'm glad that
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something like that wasn't the impetus for your album, and instead it came from just a place of spiritual searching.
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Yeah. Head injury, but also bodily transformation.
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and really the
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kind of,
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apotheosis of your creative life so far at that time?
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Totally. Yeah. And I wish I knew what the word apotheosis meant. The crowning achievement. Thank you. The crown of thorns. Yeah. So, lady Jesus. This attracted the attention of a new agent for you.
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Is that correct?
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Well,
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in a way, yeah.
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the agent story is,
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again, it's just another story of, like, do what you like to do, make the thing that you want to make, and you will find the right person at the right time.
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Needed to hear that so bad. Really? Yeah. Yeah. It's just true. And you hear it over and over again. But in my case,
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like, it goes without saying. I've applied to so many different things. I auditioned for acting grad schools many times, never got in. You definitely should have. That's insane. You're like, you got Yale written all over you.
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Like, honestly,
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If you're listening, anyone from Yale, I am mad at you. I am personally mad at you because I wanted to go there. But Kate should have gone. Oh my God. I wanted to go there
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like, in one of my
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many
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fantasies of how my life should have gone. There was definitely the Yale School of Drama.
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Fantasy where it's like, you go to Yale School of Drama, you get married, you get married to some kids. By age 30, you have a brownstone in Brooklyn. Like that should have been your life, but also you. More interesting this way. But yeah.
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yeah.
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Insane behavior. Yale. It all turned out really best, I think.
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But,
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so the agent came actually from this past year.
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I was a maker's lab resident at Arts Nova, and that's an artist residency at. Yeah. Shout out to Ars Nova for supporting my work. Seriously? It's like
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They've just been
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incredible.
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They totally understand what I'm trying to do,
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and are helping me make these crazy things like the album, the concert.
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And also my solo show, which I think that you came to.
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Yeah. Two summers ago.
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So as part of the Maker's Lab residency, I had a one night only showing of that show, which is called Where We Meet.
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And,
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they invited the person,
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who is now my agent to come to a 2 p.m. dress rehearsal for that. Well, and,
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he was there at the right place at the right time where I was really just showing a piece of work that I was proud of.
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And,
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in part because I didn't get into grad school. Like, I think about what would have happened if I had gone to grad school and I wouldn't have made this album.
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I wouldn't have made that show where you wouldn't have this agent now, like,
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yeah. And so strange how these things work, because that's what I.
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at one point thought that I really, really wanted was to go to grad acting school.
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I wouldn't have been a filmmaker, really. So I started writing and directing because I wasn't getting the acting roles that I wanted. There you go. Yeah. So desperation really, and like finding yourself if you're not seeing yourself reflected in the roles that you're even allowed to audition for, for example.
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see that too. There's like a parallel for me with music and songwriting because
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I don't consider myself a singer like
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I have a fine voice
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have worked with vocalists like I know what the difference is. People who are extremely technically gifted, that's not my gift. I started to write songs because I couldn't audition for American Idol or The Voice for me. I think you got a great voice. Well, I write well. It's sort of like
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filmmaking and screenwriting. You can write rules for yourself.
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Yeah,
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As long as you're a good writer like that. Better than anyone else. Because you know what you're capable of and what your instrument can do. Totally. Yeah. And I also work with
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one of the best producers in the game. So, like,
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I'm very, very lucky that Jake chick is amazing. He's great. Good energy. He's here now.
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Actually, not in the podcast studio, but good. You should definitely bring him to. To my party. To your beta. Yeah. This will be aired long after that, but,
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So. Okay, wait real quick on the agent. So what
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are they doing for you now?
00;17;48;39 - 00;17;50;00
Unknown
Like, are they helping or
00;17;50;06 - 00;17;50;31
Unknown
does that work?
00;17;50;31 - 00;17;54;47
Unknown
So I am represented by the theater division of WME.
00;17;54;52 - 00;17;55;57
Unknown
And
00;17;56;02 - 00;17;57;05
Unknown
that's,
00;17;57;10 - 00;18;00;06
Unknown
specifically to support where we meet
00;18;00;10 - 00;18;01;13
Unknown
the solo show.
00;18;01;18 - 00;18;10;13
Unknown
So it's to further in that direction. And I think WME represents a lot of hybrid kind of multi-hyphenate creators
00;18;10;13 - 00;18;12;58
Unknown
in the theater division. So this is for my theatrical work.
00;18;13;00 - 00;18;25;24
Unknown
Are you going out for theater gigs? Not for, like, acting auditions, but do you want, if the right thing comes up? Yeah. I've been really enjoying making my own work, honestly. So
00;18;25;29 - 00;18;28;41
Unknown
I haven't even been thinking about. Well, we gotta sit down and talk about that, because
00;18;28;52 - 00;18;33;09
Unknown
want you going out for the right projects. Yeah, but they have to submit you.
00;18;33;14 - 00;18;49;25
Unknown
And you can definitely book some cool ass shit like you know we had checkoff be in new works. It's just me girl. You repped by WME now like sky's the limit. Yeah. I feel very very very lucky honestly that it just felt like it fell into place in that moment. Yeah. It's so
00;18;49;32 - 00;18;52;19
Unknown
And again, I can't underscore it enough, but it was like,
00;18;52;24 - 00;18;53;41
Unknown
this is a project.
00;18;53;46 - 00;19;09;17
Unknown
I can't express how many hours I worked on this project when no one was watching. Just me or me and Molly, the director in a rehearsal room in NYU, applying to 25 opportunities and getting rejected from everything
00;19;09;21 - 00;19;12;50
Unknown
for years, truly for years. And then
00;19;12;55 - 00;19;18;28
Unknown
it was when we first started taping things, actually, that started to change things like when,
00;19;18;33 - 00;19;25;30
Unknown
we were able to apply to things not just with the script and the demos, but like a tape of me doing a song.
00;19;25;35 - 00;19;29;45
Unknown
Something opened up and then we started to get more opportunities
00;19;29;49 - 00;19;39;45
Unknown
like, I started to perform songs live here and there a little bit. And then we got the opportunity to do the one only showing it at first at Rs Nova, which is what you saw.
00;19;39;50 - 00;19;41;06
Unknown
And then
00;19;41;11 - 00;19;44;22
Unknown
I felt like that started to turn and the energy started to change.
00;19;44;22 - 00;19;50;33
Unknown
But we worked on that just by ourselves for years without anyone. Wow. Yeah. How many years.
00;19;50;38 - 00;19;52;32
Unknown
well actually it depends on when you
00;19;52;37 - 00;20;03;55
Unknown
count the project starting, because I first wrote a version of a show about my time teaching in a refugee camp in Germany, which is what where we meet and talks about
00;20;04;00 - 00;20;05;10
Unknown
in 2017.
00;20;05;10 - 00;20;15;19
Unknown
Wow. When I was just moved back from Germany into my parents basement and I was going crazy. Who does? One does.
00;20;15;24 - 00;20;19;17
Unknown
Yeah. It was just like the first time that I
00;20;19;22 - 00;20;21;04
Unknown
realized
00;20;21;09 - 00;20;29;27
Unknown
that so many things that I had been told were a lie and been told just being like the narrative that we learn about our country.
00;20;29;31 - 00;20;35;42
Unknown
Yeah. And so I was like, wait, are we always the good guys? Anyways? I was in a tailspin a little bit when I came back.
00;20;35;46 - 00;20;37;51
Unknown
And just trying to figure out what the fuck I wanted,
00;20;37;51 - 00;20;42;41
Unknown
to do with my life. And I wrote a mixtape about that experience
00;20;42;46 - 00;20;50;46
Unknown
that then when I moved back to New York, we put up as a musical, called notes from the Basement.
00;20;50;46 - 00;20;53;27
Unknown
And that's when I first started working with Jude, and there were a few, like
00;20;53;27 - 00;20;55;22
Unknown
people who were in the play and
00;20;55;22 - 00;21;01;35
Unknown
we did that show several iterations of it and Molly directed several of those workshops.
00;21;01;39 - 00;21;02;28
Unknown
that's where there's like
00;21;02;42 - 00;21;12;02
Unknown
where did that project start? Because it might have started then. Right. And so then that would be from 2017 to now, we're almost 2026.
00;21;12;06 - 00;21;12;48
Unknown
Nine years.
00;21;12;58 - 00;21;13;14
Unknown
and
00;21;13;14 - 00;21;13;41
Unknown
then it
00;21;13;41 - 00;21;23;08
Unknown
evolved and it became about 2021 eight years. Sorry but I'll go to 2025 2017 to 2025.
00;21;23;13 - 00;21;25;45
Unknown
I'm not a mathematician.
00;21;25;50 - 00;21;28;27
Unknown
We're artists. Maybe
00;21;28;32 - 00;21;33;48
Unknown
we'll take the phone calculators out for practice. Yeah, but
00;21;33;53 - 00;21;35;22
Unknown
the show,
00;21;35;27 - 00;21;37;52
Unknown
as it exists now, I would say
00;21;37;57 - 00;21;47;32
Unknown
I put it that project down for a little while. It wasn't quite right. I loved the people that were on it and the music that was in it, but something was not clicking.
00;21;47;37 - 00;21;48;24
Unknown
And,
00;21;48;29 - 00;21;51;45
Unknown
then around 2021, during the pandemic,
00;21;51;50 - 00;22;02;58
Unknown
it felt like a download. It was like all of a sudden, this is a solo show. This is about quantum physics. This is about sound waves. How do we reach each other when we're separated?
00;22;03;03 - 00;22;09;38
Unknown
And yeah, it was like immediate. And so that was from 2021 to now we're getting into 2026.
00;22;09;43 - 00;22;12;13
Unknown
So that's still also five years. Yeah.
00;22;12;18 - 00;22;16;14
Unknown
And a lot of time when people were not seeing it.
00;22;16;18 - 00;22;31;35
Unknown
Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Everyone should be feeling really good about those things that you're working on. And you're just toiling away by yourself in the dark sometimes. And no one's watching. If you continue to work on it,
00;22;31;40 - 00;22;33;36
Unknown
you will get the result
00;22;33;41 - 00;22;37;14
Unknown
it might not look like you thought it would, but it will feel like you wanted it to.
00;22;37;19 - 00;22;44;09
Unknown
Yeah. I've heard Finneas O'Connell say this before, but I really think it's true that
00;22;44;14 - 00;22;59;59
Unknown
the thing that an artist really has to master is their own taste and what they like, because there will be people who are better technicians than you. And until eternity, you know someone who can always be a little bit better than you at
00;23;00;08 - 00;23;01;17
Unknown
X, y, z.
00;23;01;22 - 00;23;18;48
Unknown
But they can't develop your sense of taste, your style, what you like. And so as you were saying like making projects that you love I think is the best thing that you can learn how to do. I was just thinking about that this morning. Really. Yeah. Because I had an all day edit today on
00;23;18;53 - 00;23;20;05
Unknown
short film and
00;23;20;10 - 00;23;20;46
Unknown
I
00;23;20;51 - 00;23;29;46
Unknown
find I consistently faced down the battle between the desire to make a good film for public approval.
00;23;29;50 - 00;23;33;33
Unknown
And the desire to make a film that I care about and
00;23;33;37 - 00;23;38;36
Unknown
not caring what other people think about it. And those are constantly at war.
00;23;38;41 - 00;23;40;55
Unknown
And this morning I
00;23;40;55 - 00;23;43;55
Unknown
just had to give myself a little pep talk of
00;23;43;59 - 00;23;50;08
Unknown
well hang on. Why am I so anxious about getting it right in the edit.
00;23;50;13 - 00;23;54;21
Unknown
because it's kind of the last stop on the edit or we're approaching the last stop on the trip.
00;23;54;25 - 00;23;55;46
Unknown
I'm like
00;23;55;50 - 00;23;56;49
Unknown
you know what.
00;23;56;54 - 00;24;02;16
Unknown
Who am I getting it right for? Like why am I so drilled down to perfection on this.
00;24;02;21 - 00;24;04;33
Unknown
I need to trust my taste. Like
00;24;04;46 - 00;24;08;08
Unknown
I'm cool. I like cool things and
00;24;08;08 - 00;24;10;24
Unknown
what I think is cool is cool.
00;24;10;29 - 00;24;17;09
Unknown
I also I was going over some flyover states recently and I was just like in these other states.
00;24;17;14 - 00;24;22;40
Unknown
that I sound really pretentious right now. Awful liberal
00;24;22;45 - 00;24;32;54
Unknown
but truly, I think a lot of people are asleep and not able to create anything at all and have, frankly, no taste. Not just in flyover states, but like all over,
00;24;32;59 - 00;24;40;29
Unknown
America. And to be able to have any taste at all that is remotely good is like kind of rare.
00;24;40;34 - 00;24;41;47
Unknown
Yeah. So why do I just
00;24;41;47 - 00;25;00;14
Unknown
be proud of that. Well yeah. Because we're also being completely brainwashed and our attention is being stolen from us all the time. Like it's really hard to develop one's own sense of taste when we're on a screen scrolling all day. Right. Like it's truly something that your body likes.
00;25;00;14 - 00;25;02;11
Unknown
You're like, oh yeah, that was cool.
00;25;02;16 - 00;25;18;06
Unknown
something that, you know, right? And we're losing touch with it. And that scares me. I find myself losing touch with that, too. Yeah. So, like, I'm also saying this for myself to hear, like to trust those instincts that we have and to maybe
00;25;18;11 - 00;25;19;49
Unknown
get off TikTok a little bit more.
00;25;20;04 - 00;25;33;24
Unknown
Yeah. I heard someone talking about how we have all now a slot machine in our pocket. Whoa. That's so true. It's a casino. Access to a casino in our pocket. It's so true. Well,
00;25;33;37 - 00;25;43;49
Unknown
so how do you navigate that? Because you're one of the busiest people I know. And your attention is so valuable, and I feel like you're really focused.
00;25;43;53 - 00;25;50;13
Unknown
Thank you. I mean, I've cut out a lot of other dopamine and chemical
00;25;50;18 - 00;25;56;12
Unknown
distractors. I basically don't do any drugs whatsoever anymore. I don't drink alcohol.
00;25;56;12 - 00;25;57;47
Unknown
I drink very little coffee now,
00;25;58;00 - 00;26;05;21
Unknown
but I also have an adrenal condition from working so hard. So I have to really be conscientious about how I spend my days.
00;26;05;21 - 00;26;15;35
Unknown
And I can't work 190, 80 hour weeks anymore. So my time is limited. I know, and it got real bad.
00;26;15;40 - 00;26;18;07
Unknown
But now I'm just
00;26;18;11 - 00;26;22;06
Unknown
because of this political situation that we're in in America.
00;26;22;11 - 00;26;25;35
Unknown
I don't even want to call it, like, a news cycle, because it's just
00;26;25;39 - 00;26;29;14
Unknown
downfall of democracy, potentially. And so now I'm like,
00;26;29;19 - 00;26;33;17
Unknown
when I go online, it's mostly to check, and then I can just spiral from there.
00;26;33;18 - 00;26;46;49
Unknown
Right. That's a cortisol spike immediately. Yeah. Yeah. So I have to be really mindful of that. And I basically just like all download it and then delete the app.
00;26;46;54 - 00;26;55;48
Unknown
Like I or I have to post stuff for. Yeah, for millions of rows. And then I delete the app and I try not to get lost in like a thread hole, you know.
00;26;55;50 - 00;27;04;11
Unknown
Yeah, totally. It's really hard though. Like to exercise that amount of self-control when it's a dopamine thing. Right?
00;27;04;16 - 00;27;16;01
Unknown
it's like telling any other kind of addict, like, okay, well, you can have a little bit and then turn it off. Yeah. And I think with drugs as well as with gambling or your phone or whatever,
00;27;16;06 - 00;27;18;52
Unknown
it's solving another problem.
00;27;18;57 - 00;27;25;21
Unknown
And so I'm trying to get dopamine from other places. Now I'm trying to really get enough sleep and enough. Balanced diet,
00;27;25;35 - 00;27;28;36
Unknown
wholesome foods, wholesome relationships.
00;27;28;41 - 00;27;32;28
Unknown
Trying to repair my family. Having a boyfriend really helps.
00;27;32;33 - 00;27;39;38
Unknown
Just that the love and chemical balance coming in helps me to not be so reliant on the other stuff.
00;27;39;43 - 00;27;45;30
Unknown
Yeah, definitely. It's so important for artists to protect that.
00;27;45;35 - 00;27;47;47
Unknown
It's so important. And again, I'm
00;27;47;47 - 00;28;01;34
Unknown
trying to give myself this message because it's something I've been battling while releasing this album. Like it's a very online mode that you get into when you're promoting any kind of project. Yeah. And also being in the world and
00;28;01;38 - 00;28;03;39
Unknown
so much of the world is virtual now.
00;28;03;43 - 00;28;14;42
Unknown
So maintaining that while also I'm trying to create some kind of boundaries. So I have a life outside of literally when I wake up to when I go to sleep, you know. Yeah.
00;28;14;46 - 00;28;23;47
Unknown
And what you're just saying about relationships and you're in a romantic relationship, like protecting your friendships. Having these places where
00;28;23;51 - 00;28;25;34
Unknown
rereading the Artist's Way.
00;28;25;47 - 00;28;50;27
Unknown
And Julia Cameron says that attention is, first of all, talk about currency from your other podcast episode. Like an artist sent currency is their attention and what they pay attention to. It's like all human beings, but also it's a form of love. Like noticing the person in front of you or the piece in front of you, or the artistic problem that you're solving.
00;28;50;32 - 00;28;52;52
Unknown
Yeah. This whole talk about,
00;28;52;56 - 00;28;54;07
Unknown
maybe
00;28;54;12 - 00;28;56;12
Unknown
looking for
00;28;56;17 - 00;29;05;00
Unknown
things in the wrong places. It has me thinking about candy. And the movie that we made together. Yeah. And your beautiful song.
00;29;05;05 - 00;29;10;09
Unknown
So this song, Candy, what would you say that it's about.
00;29;10;13 - 00;29;17;07
Unknown
It's definitely drawing from experiences that I had in my early and mid 20s.
00;29;17;12 - 00;29;23;19
Unknown
In the club and party scene in New York and,
00;29;23;23 - 00;29;26;14
Unknown
I also was
00;29;26;19 - 00;29;28;32
Unknown
battling with,
00;29;28;37 - 00;29;36;54
Unknown
basically like running into the party scene to escape a lot of demons, literal and metaphorical, that were following me.
00;29;36;59 - 00;29;41;33
Unknown
And so the song itself, which I think the film captures so beautifully,
00;29;41;37 - 00;29;49;53
Unknown
is both euphoric and it has this much darker undertone to it and like, almost spiritual warfare aspect to it.
00;29;49;57 - 00;29;59;41
Unknown
So how on earth. Yeah. How on earth seeking heaven on earth? By escaping. But you are. Yeah. Running away from hell on earth. Yeah.
00;29;59;46 - 00;30;06;08
Unknown
Yeah, we shot that in two days. Was it? Yeah. Two overnights. Yeah.
00;30;06;14 - 00;30;17;46
Unknown
two overnight nights. That was crazy. That was insane. So much fun. Yeah. And also, like, maybe we could talk about the whole creative process for that, because that was wild.
00;30;17;47 - 00;30;23;13
Unknown
Like, I didn't know you that well. No, we did not know each other. This is how we got to know each other.
00;30;23;18 - 00;30;33;42
Unknown
I just said I was going to direct any music video for free, and then you're like, great. And then we talked and listened to the album, and I was like, this is the song. Yeah. And so we thought we were just making a music video.
00;30;33;42 - 00;30;39;23
Unknown
And I mean, it's definitely got that in it. But yeah, I was like, why don't you make a short film as well?
00;30;39;28 - 00;30;47;34
Unknown
And you're like, okay. And then so it kind of ballooned as my projects tend to do, and became this huge, ambitious short film.
00;30;47;38 - 00;31;00;35
Unknown
well, you tell the next part. Well, I'm going to back up just a little bit because this was my introduction to you, was that you listened to that song and the concept that you pitched
00;31;00;40 - 00;31;04;36
Unknown
it actually completely freaked me out because it was so true to life.
00;31;04;41 - 00;31;16;21
Unknown
It was this, okay, we're in this New York underground club scene, and there's a man following you around. And I was like, how did you know this? Because what Misha did not know was that
00;31;16;21 - 00;31;38;41
Unknown
in that period of time, in my 20s, when I was running into the club scene I was having. I'm not even sure how to label it because I don't know if it was psychosis, sleep paralysis, spiritual warfare, a mental health episode, whatever it was, I was seeing a man following me around in various rooms, so I would kind of run away from that into these public, crowded party places.
00;31;38;55 - 00;31;39;33
Unknown
And that was
00;31;39;33 - 00;31;40;06
Unknown
what I saw
00;31;40;06 - 00;31;47;14
Unknown
when I listen to the song, I had absolutely no context from you. But that was exactly the vision that the song painted for me when this man
00;31;47;19 - 00;31;50;09
Unknown
kept showing up and his face would morph
00;31;50;09 - 00;31;53;59
Unknown
whoever he was at that party or in the street or whatever.
00;31;54;04 - 00;32;05;48
Unknown
And it was really tormenting you. And come to find out, that's exactly what happened. Yeah. So she was like, I have this idea of a concept. I was like, did you just open my brain and read my memories?
00;32;05;53 - 00;32;07;52
Unknown
His name was Ted, by the way.
00;32;07;57 - 00;32;11;10
Unknown
That's what I called him to try to make him less scary.
00;32;11;15 - 00;32;15;42
Unknown
How did you end up playing Ted? Oh, man, that's such a good question.
00;32;15;47 - 00;32;25;36
Unknown
Has that happened to you as well? Like this sleep paralysis type demon? Well, I see night terrors a lot. Which is eyes open. Very
00;32;25;49 - 00;32;31;16
Unknown
disturbing images and creatures in my room. But you're awake? Yes.
00;32;31;21 - 00;32;39;44
Unknown
Yeah, but when you get up. Are they still there? No. It's like an out of the dream kind of thing coming out of sleep. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So they
00;32;39;50 - 00;32;47;17
Unknown
behave, they go away when I tell them to. Okay. That's good. You have a handle on them only. Ted. Yeah. Ted was had a mind of his own.
00;32;47;22 - 00;32;55;25
Unknown
What helped with Ted? Ultimately, the last Ted episode I had, I was 27, and,
00;32;55;30 - 00;33;00;52
Unknown
what did not help was I went to a psychiatrist who then was like,
00;33;00;58 - 00;33;04;30
Unknown
let's summon Ted into the room. Right. Oh, my. Have a conversation. The three of
00;33;04;30 - 00;33;05;20
Unknown
us. No.
00;33;05;25 - 00;33;11;18
Unknown
cause I was like, no, why would I ever intentionally something, Ted?
00;33;11;23 - 00;33;16;25
Unknown
That's like the beginning of a horror movie that actually, that's a good idea. Maybe we should write that movie.
00;33;16;29 - 00;33;19;52
Unknown
We'll do that. How did I get rid of Ted?
00;33;19;57 - 00;33;20;10
Unknown
I
00;33;20;19 - 00;33;24;06
Unknown
went into therapy. I think that's the short story
00;33;24;11 - 00;33;30;36
Unknown
started to deal with, like, some of what might have been inspiring that to happen.
00;33;30;41 - 00;33;32;00
Unknown
Cool.
00;33;32;05 - 00;33;42;28
Unknown
So when we finish the film, which will be soon, watch out. We'll release the film. But then the music video is going to have a separate life.
00;33;42;33 - 00;33;52;23
Unknown
when that music video is ready, like, how does that dovetail with the album release, like releasing the video content, the music content to talk about that? Yeah, totally.
00;33;52;27 - 00;34;02;43
Unknown
I am of the mindset or I guess I'm inspired by artists who continue to find new life in their work. Tyler, the creator, said
00;34;02;47 - 00;34;15;43
Unknown
he promotes an album for some on the street the other day. You did? Yeah, I said, you're amazing. And he goes, thank you. Oh my God, that's so cool. Sorry to interrupt. No, no, no, thank you for telling me that.
00;34;15;48 - 00;34;20;00
Unknown
Wow. I'm, like, imagining him here in the room with us now. He's so
00;34;20;05 - 00;34;29;53
Unknown
He's so cool. Yeah, I saw a video of him saying that he promotes an album for a year after it's up. And I think that in this media landscape,
00;34;29;58 - 00;34;33;08
Unknown
it's such a funny term that I just use,
00;34;33;08 - 00;34;36;26
Unknown
in this media landscape.
00;34;36;31 - 00;34;54;04
Unknown
Songs can blow up at any point, basically, so there's less pressure on, like the day that something comes out than there used to be. Yeah, it used to be that, like, you could get on a Spotify editorial playlist and that's your shot. And yeah, the release week is everything now. It's just, okay, I've put something out into the world now.
00;34;54;06 - 00;35;02;04
Unknown
My job is, how do I find the people who are going to love this thing? And the video is a big part of like creating the visual world for that. And,
00;35;02;09 - 00;35;09;34
Unknown
I think that as far as I see it, I'll just keep putting it out, have it on Earth related stuff. Yeah. Until
00;35;09;39 - 00;35;13;37
Unknown
people find it, you know, until the people who need it find it.
00;35;13;41 - 00;35;24;22
Unknown
Yeah. That's cool. Yeah. You have a show in January correct. Yeah. Yeah. Joe's pub. Yeah I'm double billing with Elon Winter. Do you know Elon. I've heard the name. Yeah. They're so cool.
00;35;24;31 - 00;35;31;24
Unknown
also an Ars Nova person, singer songwriter, actor like so so talented. Ellen did a
00;35;31;24 - 00;35;33;28
Unknown
show in Brooklyn,
00;35;33;33 - 00;35;37;07
Unknown
this past summer. Just stripped back piano and vocals.
00;35;37;20 - 00;35;44;30
Unknown
And this is, like, Sarah Burrell's level talent. Wow. Like, that was a masterclass in voice and piano, so I'm very excited
00;35;44;30 - 00;35;51;26
Unknown
I'm honored to that. I'm a part of the lineup, honestly. What date? It's January 18th at 8:30 p.m. at Joe's Pub.
00;35;51;30 - 00;35;54;04
Unknown
I'll see you guys there.
00;35;54;09 - 00;36;02;32
Unknown
That's so cool. And so in addition to everything you do with the album, are there other projects on the horizon for you?
00;36;02;34 - 00;36;03;36
Unknown
What are you thinking?
00;36;03;41 - 00;36;05;19
Unknown
Oh, yeah.
00;36;05;23 - 00;36;06;32
Unknown
So
00;36;06;37 - 00;36;08;14
Unknown
I can't share everything yet,
00;36;08;14 - 00;36;09;39
Unknown
So stay tuned.
00;36;09;39 - 00;36;13;27
Unknown
And maybe by the time this comes out, I'll be able to share more with you guys.
00;36;13;32 - 00;36;15;37
Unknown
And so I'm looking ahead at that
00;36;15;41 - 00;36;17;03
Unknown
and,
00;36;17;08 - 00;36;22;46
Unknown
then I've started writing album number two. Good. Yeah.
00;36;22;51 - 00;36;23;28
Unknown
Oh my gosh.
00;36;23;33 - 00;36;32;04
Unknown
in this whole promotion phase, I was like, I'm going to go crazy if I don't start making new things. Yeah, like, there's such a cycle for all of these. Do you find this to with films?
00;36;32;08 - 00;36;33;56
Unknown
If you're in one phase with
00;36;33;56 - 00;36;52;21
Unknown
too many projects, like you are just in editing for too many projects or just in promotion right now, you have to like, yeah, balance it out somehow. Yes, that's what I was feeling so heavy because I was so much in okay, the thing is created and done. Now we're just moving it to try to find an audience.
00;36;52;26 - 00;36;56;21
Unknown
And so started album number two. And,
00;36;56;26 - 00;37;11;53
Unknown
I'm also thinking a lot more. This is like, I haven't even done it yet, but I'm thinking more about writing like Substack and putting out more prose and essays and that kind of thing. Because you were an English major. Yeah. Good recall. Yeah. Well, you were always like, just really good with that stuff.
00;37;11;53 - 00;37;18;31
Unknown
And like, I don't know what that means. I just put it in the movie.
00;37;18;36 - 00;37;25;39
Unknown
No, you're very, like, verbally talented as an orator. And I think I'm probably talented as a writer.
00;37;25;44 - 00;37;26;07
Unknown
actually
00;37;26;11 - 00;37;34;22
Unknown
I was reflecting on like, my artistry because being on this podcast is such a cool opportunity to think about it. And,
00;37;34;27 - 00;37;43;52
Unknown
I really conceive of myself as a writer first and foremost with everything. Like with music, with theater, I can perform and I can do all these things, but that's where I started.
00;37;43;57 - 00;37;46;06
Unknown
It's always starting on the page.
00;37;46;11 - 00;38;01;34
Unknown
that's cool. I used to think of myself like that, and now I just like the sound of my own voice too much. Okay, you are an orator. I might have graduated to a performer. Yeah, that's so cool. I don't know, is it? Is it? No. Just kidding. Yeah, definitely.
00;38;01;39 - 00;38;02;04
Unknown
All right.
00;38;02;04 - 00;38;03;19
Unknown
Well,
00;38;03;24 - 00;38;16;26
Unknown
I want to make sure that people know where to find you. So can you give us all of the publicly available channels for Kate ever Evershed. Yes I am available on Instagram. Kate don't everything's under my name.
00;38;16;31 - 00;38;20;34
Unknown
Which was also the choice. And we can also talk about that too.
00;38;20;38 - 00;38;30;48
Unknown
Yeah. Kate ever set on Instagram TikTok YouTube, Spotify, Apple Music, Amazon Music, Deezer, SoundCloud?
00;38;31;02 - 00;38;39;42
Unknown
And if you had one preferred social media platform, what? Where would you want people to find you? Probably Instagram. That's where I post the most about events and stuff. Yeah, yeah. Sam.
00;38;39;47 - 00;38;46;54
Unknown
Elder millennial yeah. Are you on TikTok as well? I am, my interns. Run it for me. No. Okay. Yeah.
00;38;46;54 - 00;38;48;48
Unknown
Every once in a while I'll have a post blow up.
00;38;48;48 - 00;38;52;57
Unknown
I'm like, whoa, I did nothing to deserve that. Yeah,
00;38;53;07 - 00;38;55;20
Unknown
virality on TikTok is so different.
00;38;55;25 - 00;39;00;53
Unknown
All of a sudden, your notifications just blow up and you can't really keep up with all of it.
00;39;01;05 - 00;39;13;04
Unknown
at least in my experience. Yeah. That's where you get the most access to strangers, I feel. Yes, the most insane comments, the most wild comments of your life.
00;39;13;09 - 00;39;31;00
Unknown
But also TikTok has a really good sense of humor. But those people can be savage. Oh my God, they're so mean. So mean. Yes. So real quick for people who are thinking of changing their names. Oh yeah. So what was that? Why did you stick with your actual name? Oh, man,
00;39;31;05 - 00;39;32;58
Unknown
again, it's a spiritual choice in a way.
00;39;32;58 - 00;39;34;11
Unknown
For me.
00;39;34;16 - 00;39;44;21
Unknown
But I grew up in lots of different environments. And also, being a woman, and
00;39;44;26 - 00;39;49;46
Unknown
I just got into the habit of shapeshifting and chameleon ING a lot
00;39;49;51 - 00;39;51;12
Unknown
and
00;39;51;16 - 00;40;02;22
Unknown
fitting the situation that I was in and finding my own authentic voice is both easy when I'm making something, but very hard when I'm in front of other people.
00;40;02;27 - 00;40;03;54
Unknown
So I
00;40;03;58 - 00;40;20;13
Unknown
flirted for a very long time with like an alter ego or in a persona, and also letting go of my history, feeling like some kind of sense of freedom, maybe from that. But when I decided to come out with this album and this solo show,
00;40;20;18 - 00;40;26;12
Unknown
even though it was the scarier thing to do, I decided to go by my name and I had gotten advice on that.
00;40;26;12 - 00;40;29;12
Unknown
I feel like we talked about this as well. Yeah.
00;40;29;16 - 00;40;40;15
Unknown
And almost like that's an act of imperfectly finding myself by committing to do that rather than creating some alter ego.
00;40;40;20 - 00;40;45;04
Unknown
Where I was putting on an act of some kind.
00;40;45;09 - 00;40;53;19
Unknown
Yeah. And so I also had gotten basically advice from everyone that I know who is like, just go by your name like you, you have SEO built up
00;40;53;24 - 00;40;59;29
Unknown
It's like not starting from scratch. The easiest thing to do. But my name is hard to spell to
00;40;59;34 - 00;41;07;39
Unknown
still don't know how to spell with confidence. The d t is is complicated the Germanic aspect.
00;41;07;44 - 00;41;08;26
Unknown
But,
00;41;08;31 - 00;41;15;55
Unknown
Yvette Noel. Sure. Who is Beyonce's publicist also had to spell. Yeah, I think Beyonce. Well, that's that was her point.
00;41;15;55 - 00;41;16;51
Unknown
Yeah. Like,
00;41;16;56 - 00;41;19;31
Unknown
I did a very brief,
00;41;19;36 - 00;41;39;41
Unknown
guest teaching spot in one of her classes at Berklee School of Music, and we talked about the name thing with the students in the business school because they asked why I chose to put it out under my name. And I did mention it's hard to spell. And she said, well, Beyoncé was hard to spell at first, and she's like, they'll learn how to spell your name.
00;41;39;41 - 00;41;41;47
Unknown
Nice. Yeah.
00;41;41;52 - 00;41;49;55
Unknown
Oh, man. I just love you so much. I love you, too. Thank you for having me. My pleasure, my pleasure. And everyone.
00;41;49;59 - 00;41;52;51
Unknown
my friend Kate's album.
00;41;52;56 - 00;41;54;48
Unknown
Look her up. Give her a follow
00;41;54;52 - 00;42;01;46
Unknown
the stuff you've been posting also lately. It's just very fire, like the little videos and stuff. Thank you, thank you, thank you.
00;42;01;46 - 00;42;17;06
Unknown
Yeah, we're experimenting with all kinds of things to come check it out. And candy soon. Yeah. Candy and heaven on earth. Go download right now guys. Yeah. Thanks, Kate. Thank you. Bye. See you next week. See ya.
00;42;17;11 - 00;42;37;30
Unknown
The Vermillion Podcast is sponsored by Vermillion, a home for artists. We offer classes, coaching and community for creatives and innovators in the arts. If you're ready to find your voice and build the life of your dreams, we are here to support you every step of the way. Check out Club vermillion.com and schedule a free call today.
