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Welcome to The Vermillion Podcast, a free audio library of business strategies, creative inspiration and industry knowledge for actors, filmmakers, writers and anyone looking to activate their creative potential. I'm Nisha Culver, a writer director who helps artists build the careers that they dream of. I really hope that this podcast inspires you in some way. Thanks for tuning in.
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What is your adventure
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as a casting director?
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How did you get there? And kind of what is
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the unexpected day to day like that? A lot of people don't really think about even.
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It varies really, depending on the project.
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Depending on if it's theater, if it's film, if it's
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new media.
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To me, it's
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it's energy. You know, it's something that
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it either works or it doesn't work.
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And I never really kind of know. I mean,
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a lot of directors have, like, this vision in their head, you know, this is how the character is going to look.
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ridiculous. You should always let it happen organically.
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The person comes in or I see a film and I just know they're right for it and in that respect.
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But since I do work mainly in independent films and independent everything, I'm able to change ages, ethnicities,
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genders of characters and really cast the best, you know,
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for the role. So I kind of like to look at it that way and,
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and just keep an open mind and let the talent come to you. You know, it can be really stressful because
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lot of people like to have things,
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all their ducks in a row or whatever,
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set in stone.
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And
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you gotta let it out, you know, leave the door open for spontaneity or creativity or
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just the unexpected to happen, because that's sometimes
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what's best. You know,
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dancing with the universe. Exactly.
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when you said energy. Can you elaborate a little on what you mean by that?
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Yeah,
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I actually sometimes see energy as colors and,
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someone comes into a room and I just see,
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like, an aura, and it's the essence of the character.
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You know, it's there and people don't
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necessarily have to
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read from the script or,
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say anything. I
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just know they're right.
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And somehow that energy works with my energy. And
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we build off each other and hopefully, you know, the director
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picks up on it and they might not even know. Director producers.
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What makes this person so right?
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But they feel it. And
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Yeah, it's just something that,
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you can't really teach. You can't, you know,
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it just kind of
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It's, I don't know,
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otherworldly.
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I'm so frickin excited that you are open to talking about your energetic gifts.
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A lot of people get weirded out by that, but the ones that don't are the people that I want to work with
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because they get it.
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Like, I have clear cognizance where I just know certain things about certain actors, about certain projects, certain productions. When I'm directing or when I'm writing, even all download things from I don't even know where.
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And they end up being like, factually accurate. And I have no way of having known that.
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And I just love that you're so open to sharing that this is an aspect of your casting process.
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Yeah,
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and when we work together, obviously I felt that energy from you,
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you know, and I saw it go between you and people that you were auditioning.
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And it was almost like one step ahead of my own energy, you know, I almost had to keep up with yours. And, this one, it's
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it's a race.
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It's a game. It's life, you know,
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every project I get excited about
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you know, I just want that energy to happen
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a little aside here,
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I,
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I'm casting two films. One's called Farrell, and it's been shot in, Sri Lanka. And then another is called At First Sight, and that's being shot in
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Taiwan.
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They're back to back. And
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for the Sri Lanka film,
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there's one of the lead roles and she's
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Southern Asian Indian, you know, and
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I started just looking at people,
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doing research on IMDb, blah, blah, blah. But I'm also a voter or I'm on the,
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performance committee for the British Independent Film Awards.
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And I just had a feeling that I would see this character in another film.
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And I watched, I don't know, 80 or 90 films, and it was the last one, and it was called In the Earth, and her name is Alora Tortilla,
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and she's,
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based
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London, and it's amazing how she just jumped right out and she read the script and she just felt the exact same thing. And
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it's almost miraculous, you know, it's somewhere else in the world.
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Something is connecting. And
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I love it. That's like when we cast Layla, one of
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Brett's best friends, one of my very best friends on the earth since 2013. Oh. So. Wow. Yeah. Way before we did. Talk to her all the time. Love her. Yeah.
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Yes. She came out of nowhere.
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Not out of nowhere.
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She's with,
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Laurie Smith, a great,
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manager, and.
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Right. She just was the character. You know, we saw so many people for that role and every different type, really. And,
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something about her, right? It was instantaneous. Yeah. Right away. And she just got it,
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Her energy was perfect, and it translates so well, you know, in a
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finished product, which is really important.
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can I ask to who, which
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saw in the Earth.
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I feel like I was one of the only ones who saw it here in,
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in America.
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so who did that person play? One of the two leads. She was, you know, she lives, right? Yeah, but she's in the poster guys and everything.
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Yes. Okay. Yeah. I'd seen her in midsummer. She's in
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her character gets killed along with her boyfriend. Oh, okay. Yeah, she was great in midsummer. Right. But it's funny how that didn't connect with me.
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But as soon as I saw her and this other thing,
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I mean, it's obviously the same person, but,
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you know, it's so hard to explain what really makes it work.
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Tell her hello. I will, and I can totally understand how Layla fits into what you two are discussing. Because
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She puts that out there too. And she really believed. Yeah, she believes in it a lot. And so it's. And it's important to her too. And her collaborators. I didn't know that. But I really admire that she did theater.
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You know, she's done all this really interesting stuff, and she's been around for a while. She's got the gravitas. And, you know,
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she's a serious, serious actor.
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that, to me is the mark of a great career.
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Well, Brett
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Harley and I could talk about or as an experience all day long, but
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please jump in with, maybe some more practical questions.
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Yeah,
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well, you know what was hardly. I want to discuss,
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like, longevity within what you do, longevity in the career,
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staying with it for as long as you have, and as long as you will.
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What
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tools and tactics do you use to kind of get through moments that are more difficult within what you do and what is difficult within what you do?
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That maybe
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our listeners or actors don't know about.
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the good thing about being a casting director or being an actor or anyone really in this business is, you know, that next month you'll be on something else or you won't be on anything.
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So even when it's stressful, you've got to enjoy that. You're not here for cakewalk, you're here for the good and the bad.
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And so,
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Yeah. And it's really, you know, frustrating situations. I try to just step back a little and say, you know what? It'll be over soon. And so this is part of life. And, you know, you got to enjoy it. Otherwise, you know, why are you doing this? You know, I don't have business cards.
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I don't have a website.
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Everything I do is word of mouth. And I work with people over they recommend me, and people come to me, and then they send me scripts, and I love them or I don't. And so that's why I do it. Why turn down something that comes to you? And again, we're talking about the energy there.
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And there's some,
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producers I just love to work with. There's some people I would never work with again. You know, it's a journey and it's fun.
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don't mind the bumps on the road. You know, we have a lot of actors who listen, and,
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I get a ton of questions when I teach. And Brett runs his own small networking studio as well.
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some of them don't have a clue as to,
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missteps in auditions or what is useful in actually making a good audition. So what is the kind of low hanging fruit of your top lists of do's and don'ts? The don'ts that I noticed most, I would say a lot of actors,
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draw attention to their shortcomings.
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And that's ridiculous. I mean, they could be five minutes late. We have no idea that they're late. And then they come into the room and say, oh, I'm so sorry I was late. And they give you this whole story
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it's then you remember the person is a late person, you know, otherwise you would have been unnoticeable or act actors are doing a great job
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and it seems so spontaneous and natural.
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They're doing the sides. And then they say, wait, can I start over again?
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Always let the director, you know, do that.
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Or they're like, oh, sorry, I forgot an and or a or something and we don't care.
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they made it so natural and they think, oh, they're forgetting things. And
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it's not about memorizing. It's about making your own, you know, the actors that come in and make bold choices are the ones that I remember.
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Even if they don't get the part,
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bring them back because they did something with it. It may have been different, but it just blows me away.
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say 50 actors come in for role, 49 are going to do it just like it's written. Okay? It's like I figure skating. They're hitting all these marks or whatever.
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But it's
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generic. You don't remember 49 people, even if they're perfect because they're all alike, right? Those ones that make choices. I mean,
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Go way back here to sex and the city. There's some,
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hostess role,
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and she had two words, and it was, why bother? Everybody came in. Why bother? Why bother? Why bother?
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One young woman came in and she said,
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why bother with a question mark at the end? It was so it
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that little thing
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she made an arc like in two words, you know
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and it separated her. I remember Michael Patrick King, Darren Star like saying she's the real deal. And I'm like,
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that was so minute of a choice really.
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But she got the role. You know
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it was just something that set her apart and made it interesting and,
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the universe work for her and everything, you know.
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in that moment,
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the another sex and the city story.
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The a guy, I forget who is dating, but he takes down his pants and he's not wearing underwear.
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But in the auditions, this actor came in and he did that, and he wasn't wearing underwear. And that was a really bad choice, you know, it was, Wow.
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Yeah. Actors,
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they have to realize
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there's hair, makeup, wardrobe on set. You don't have to come in, you know, in a doctor's outfit or whatever.
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In fact,
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that could look worse.
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If you see five people in, in the waiting area and they're all dressed as, you know, judges or something,
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all about the.
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performance. It's what's inside, you know, it's
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it's the creation of
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every cell of a human being that makes it important. It's not how the hair is or how the makeup is.
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in fact, too much hair and makeup.
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it's off putting, you know, I mean,
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remember some women that would come in with shellacked hairdos and
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ridiculous Tammy Faye
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like makeup.
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And you didn't see the person, you just saw the makeup. You just saw the hair, you know? And
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I don't cast hair and makeup, I cast the people.
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And hair. Makeup makes them the character. That's another don't. I would say that. So many great quotes. I don't cast hair and makeup
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and it's never full frontal. No, no.
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And a lot of people also come into auditions and they start talking about their relationships and
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It
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just feels like you're in a therapy session.
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I want to believe that this
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actor is the character, you know, and then they're throwing all this other stuff in.
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know, I'm not the only one obviously, in the auditions, but I know it's a turn off to the director. It's a turn off the producer.
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So like, oh, no, I don't like them. They're from Indiana.
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You know, it's just something that
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not a word to the character.
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And they said it. And so it just sets them.
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two steps back. I'm so curious about that. Right.
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like, someone comes in and goes on and on about their relationship or something personal.
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How did they think in that moment it was appropriate to do that?
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Did somebody just say, how are you? And then they monologues and answer
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and they just didn't get that. That's not you're supposed to just say, good. Yeah, no,
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thinking of a specific actor who came in
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he just was like, sorry, that was a flat delivery. I
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or my girlfriend just broke up with me.
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I'm so bummed. And.
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Okay, no. It's there. You just blew it. We want the actors to get the role. We don't want to be sitting there for weeks and weeks and weeks,
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and see 5000 people. But so many actors come in and they're nervous. And I as an actor, I used to go into auditions,
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and I used to see these casting directors and producers and directors and studio people, and they had these faces like, you know, and it I really took that as that's what they thought of me.
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Don't take things so personally, you know, don't think it's all about you and all this energy is directed negative energy. I used to like go home crying because I thought everyone hated me on a soap opera.
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there are so many little reasons to that. An actor might not get a job. They could remind, director of someone they went to high school with.
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know, the stupidest things in the world
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that you really have no control over.
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So you got to, you know,
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just trust the universe, and you got to keep going. You got to have a thick skin. This is the hardest business. It really is. Once you book the job. I think it's one of the easiest things in the world, because actors love to act.
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And, you know, they would do it for free.
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But getting the job is
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as hard as it gets.
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The competition and the amount of people going for a single role is daunting. So you can't think of that. You have to think of every audition as a performance in itself.
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even if your audience has a camera and a reader, you have to have joy in that.
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Otherwise
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going to be miserable.
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So don't think of like, I got the role as that's the measure of success necessarily. Think of,
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I did a great job, I was real,
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I transformed myself
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and then for whatever reason, you didn't get, you know,
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I love your sense of humor, and I love how grounded you are.
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I love how
00;13;40;04 - 00;13;40;29
Unknown
You seem to have this,
00;13;41;10 - 00;13;43;07
Unknown
kind of spiritual grounding as well.
00;13;43;18 - 00;13;44;28
Unknown
What do you
00;13;44;28 - 00;13;51;15
Unknown
recommend as far as actors keeping their sanity methods to staying grounded?
00;13;51;22 - 00;13;55;15
Unknown
Let it go. Like when you walk out of there, let it go.
00;13;55;21 - 00;13;58;03
Unknown
A lot of actors have blinders, you know, they
00;13;58;03 - 00;13;59;16
Unknown
just think, okay, I have to do this.
00;13;59;16 - 00;14;09;15
Unknown
I'm on this course. And then they miss all these other opportunities. And life is about more than winning a race. You know, life is about the day to day, the moment to moment, the
00;14;09;15 - 00;14;11;01
Unknown
details, the small stuff
00;14;11;12 - 00;14;13;16
Unknown
That's what really matters. And so,
00;14;13;16 - 00;14;14;11
Unknown
let it go
00;14;14;11 - 00;14;16;15
Unknown
and enjoy life. And that'll make you a
00;14;16;26 - 00;14;21;13
Unknown
more grounded person, better actor, much more pleasant to be around.
00;14;21;13 - 00;14;22;03
Unknown
You know, sometimes
00;14;22;03 - 00;14;24;28
Unknown
see actors on the street and I'm like, oh, how are you?
00;14;25;07 - 00;14;31;05
Unknown
And they're like, well, I had a callback for this and I'm on hold for this. I was paying for this and blah, blah, blah,
00;14;31;16 - 00;14;37;23
Unknown
you know, I didn't mean that. I meant, like, how are you? You know, as a person, as a friend, as a human being.
00;14;37;23 - 00;14;38;09
Unknown
It's not.
00;14;38;20 - 00;14;41;13
Unknown
I don't see you as a commodity, you know,
00;14;41;13 - 00;14;52;11
Unknown
it's ridiculous. But so many actors just forget. And I'm a person just like they are. And we should all just be people, you know, live your life, be happy, and just respect people like you want others to respect you.
00;14;52;11 - 00;14;55;06
Unknown
humans, we're humans.
00;14;55;06 - 00;14;55;10
Unknown
Yeah.
00;14;55;10 - 00;15;01;19
Unknown
I love these questions, by the way. Right. And I like to keep it real. Yeah, yeah. Me too. I like things off the cuff.
00;15;02;00 - 00;15;03;17
Unknown
I'm wondering. Harley.
00;15;03;22 - 00;15;08;15
Unknown
So we have a lot of actors who are kind of at the indie level themselves
00;15;08;15 - 00;15;10;08
Unknown
are listening to the podcast
00;15;10;15 - 00;15;15;04
Unknown
when it comes to materials, what is the most important thing that you look for?
00;15;15;04 - 00;15;20;17
Unknown
Is it the headshot or is it the real like, if someone had to focus on just one thing, resume,
00;15;20;17 - 00;15;25;12
Unknown
what should they be focusing on? Resume A resume, to me is the most important.
00;15;25;17 - 00;15;31;19
Unknown
I like to see training actors access breakdown services. I look at every single submission
00;15;31;23 - 00;15;33;00
Unknown
I look at the eyes.
00;15;33;05 - 00;15;34;12
Unknown
And that's so important because
00;15;34;12 - 00;15;36;07
Unknown
I'll see a character in a different light.
00;15;36;08 - 00;15;38;06
Unknown
You know, when I see a face that
00;15;38;06 - 00;15;45;12
Unknown
speaks to me, then I look at the resume and that kind of makes or breaks it with me. I can tell when someone's serious. I can tell when someone
00;15;45;12 - 00;15;48;12
Unknown
is about a career and not about being famous. You know,
00;15;48;12 - 00;15;48;23
Unknown
there's
00;15;48;23 - 00;15;52;27
Unknown
little things and I'll see some resumes and they'll be poorly formatted and
00;15;52;27 - 00;15;56;24
Unknown
they'll have directors misspelled, you know, stuff like that.
00;15;56;29 - 00;15;58;11
Unknown
And I'm like, that's just sloppy.
00;15;58;16 - 00;15;58;27
Unknown
I'll
00;15;58;27 - 00;16;03;23
Unknown
bring it up to them and they'll say, oh, well, you know, it's a great headshot, you know, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, yeah, but
00;16;03;28 - 00;16;05;04
Unknown
it's not the whole package.
00;16;05;09 - 00;16;06;20
Unknown
Reels are good.
00;16;06;20 - 00;16;08;09
Unknown
do like reels. But
00;16;08;12 - 00;16;15;26
Unknown
the problem with some people's reels are length effects, like special effects editing with a soundtrack
00;16;15;26 - 00;16;17;05
Unknown
and montages
00;16;17;08 - 00;16;17;20
Unknown
know,
00;16;17;20 - 00;16;19;07
Unknown
overshadows the work.
00;16;19;07 - 00;16;20;01
Unknown
I really think,
00;16;20;01 - 00;16;21;17
Unknown
good reels should be, like,
00;16;21;21 - 00;16;26;29
Unknown
maybe two, 2.5 minutes. Yeah, just like simple. And focus on your work and
00;16;27;07 - 00;16;32;08
Unknown
we don't need the bells and whistles. And so many people spend way too much money on these things.
00;16;32;14 - 00;16;34;04
Unknown
Same with headshots. I,
00;16;34;04 - 00;16;38;28
Unknown
think it's ridiculous. And this to back when, you know, my day, you had to spend money.
00;16;38;28 - 00;16;40;01
Unknown
It was film and
00;16;40;09 - 00;16;43;11
Unknown
retouching and going to Cannes, Toronto to for
00;16;43;19 - 00;16;48;25
Unknown
and then mailing them and putting the cardboard backing and I mean, there's just so much involved.
00;16;49;01 - 00;16;55;01
Unknown
And now you could do that for nothing, you know, and that's how it should be. No one wants paper anymore. An actor will come and
00;16;55;01 - 00;16;57;07
Unknown
give me three different headshots, and
00;16;57;12 - 00;16;59;26
Unknown
what a waste, you know, just make a choice.
00;16;59;26 - 00;17;02;26
Unknown
Give me one. Or let's say, which one do you like best?
00;17;03;04 - 00;17;06;07
Unknown
you know, I just want to see or audition. I don't want to have to choose
00;17;06;07 - 00;17;08;27
Unknown
emotional labor. Yeah, yeah,
00;17;08;27 - 00;17;17;15
Unknown
yeah. It's just it's not a big deal. It really is not a big deal in the scheme of things. But it's those little details that kind of good,
00;17;17;15 - 00;17;18;08
Unknown
put you up or
00;17;18;08 - 00;17;21;04
Unknown
move you down and you know you're going to want the,
00;17;21;04 - 00;17;21;22
Unknown
person that
00;17;21;26 - 00;17;28;14
Unknown
is the least bothersome if you're looking at, you know, okay, between this actor and this actor.
00;17;28;14 - 00;17;28;27
Unknown
Yeah.
00;17;28;27 - 00;17;38;27
Unknown
want one that's not a pain in the ass. Yeah. And I think that's, this has come up with almost every guest we've interviewed is that
00;17;38;27 - 00;17;54;27
Unknown
it's very sexy and appealing. When there's an actor who makes the decision for themselves, comes in confident and hot and strong with it, and then leaves the damn room, and they're not weird about it or giving you eight options, eight headshots or 19 takes
00;17;55;02 - 00;17;56;21
Unknown
or 30,000 questions.
00;17;56;24 - 00;17;58;22
Unknown
It's here's my shit goodbye.
00;17;58;22 - 00;18;01;11
Unknown
if this is a fit, great. If not, I'm
00;18;01;11 - 00;18;05;19
Unknown
a human who has a life to live outside of this moment. Yes,
00;18;05;19 - 00;18;07;22
Unknown
We want confidence.
00;18;07;22 - 00;18;13;20
Unknown
Yeah. So talk about this is not a war story. Give us the
00;18;13;20 - 00;18;14;15
Unknown
details on that.
00;18;14;24 - 00;18;16;17
Unknown
This is not a war stories directed by
00;18;16;17 - 00;18;17;22
Unknown
and written by Talia
00;18;17;22 - 00;18;18;12
Unknown
Lucchese
00;18;18;15 - 00;18;21;06
Unknown
it's also edited by her stars. Her
00;18;21;06 - 00;18;25;22
Unknown
really an interesting hybrid of documentary and,
00;18;25;22 - 00;18;26;15
Unknown
narrative.
00;18;26;23 - 00;18;28;00
Unknown
PTSD is
00;18;28;00 - 00;18;29;13
Unknown
told through a female,
00;18;29;13 - 00;18;30;14
Unknown
veteran.
00;18;30;14 - 00;18;33;18
Unknown
it was a very difficult, dense script that a lot of people,
00;18;33;22 - 00;18;35;29
Unknown
sort of misinterpreted when we were casting it.
00;18;35;29 - 00;18;36;28
Unknown
I think,
00;18;36;28 - 00;18;37;26
Unknown
and,
00;18;38;00 - 00;18;42;10
Unknown
I'm just so happy the way that it finally did turn out. And it's nominated for,
00;18;42;10 - 00;18;43;07
Unknown
the,
00;18;43;07 - 00;18;48;15
Unknown
Cassavetes Award at the Independent Spirit. Oh my God. Wow. Yeah. And it's
00;18;48;15 - 00;18;51;01
Unknown
up against four other films that I've seen.
00;18;51;01 - 00;18;52;23
Unknown
Which is exciting, but,
00;18;52;27 - 00;18;54;21
Unknown
you know, it's like The Little Engine that could.
00;18;54;21 - 00;18;56;24
Unknown
And you're always so happy,
00;18;56;24 - 00;18;58;09
Unknown
when someone, like, tell you,
00;18;58;09 - 00;19;03;19
Unknown
gets a success after working on one project for years and years and years.
00;19;03;23 - 00;19;05;19
Unknown
Her last film was called descent,
00;19;05;23 - 00;19;09;14
Unknown
and it was, I think it came out in 2009.
00;19;09;14 - 00;19;12;00
Unknown
And Starburst are a dozen who actually,
00;19;12;00 - 00;19;13;17
Unknown
they're friends from childhood
00;19;13;22 - 00;19;15;28
Unknown
and Rosario is our executive producer.
00;19;16;01 - 00;19;18;20
Unknown
but yeah, she's meticulous and,
00;19;18;25 - 00;19;25;10
Unknown
you know, it's a big deal to star in your own projects as well. And it's hard for casting director to cast,
00;19;25;21 - 00;19;26;27
Unknown
around,
00;19;26;27 - 00;19;29;01
Unknown
an unknown, pretty much actor,
00;19;29;01 - 00;19;31;08
Unknown
who's going to play the lead in their film?
00;19;31;08 - 00;19;31;18
Unknown
And
00;19;31;18 - 00;19;32;27
Unknown
had to deal with that a lot.
00;19;32;27 - 00;19;34;24
Unknown
Back to Blue Ruin making.
00;19;34;24 - 00;19;36;19
Unknown
Blair was the lead, and,
00;19;36;19 - 00;19;39;19
Unknown
everybody loved that script. And as soon as
00;19;39;19 - 00;19;51;01
Unknown
they asked everyone who was playing Dwight and I would say, make him Blair. And they're like, oh, well, then I don't want my clients. These are agents. I don't want my clients to play backup to an unknown. That was a big deal.
00;19;51;06 - 00;19;52;19
Unknown
And that's a pretty common,
00;19;53;05 - 00;19;55;03
Unknown
and I remember that as a casting director.
00;19;55;03 - 00;19;57;13
Unknown
What agents wouldn't, you know,
00;19;57;13 - 00;19;58;19
Unknown
submit or
00;19;58;19 - 00;19;59;10
Unknown
send
00;19;59;10 - 00;20;01;08
Unknown
their actors in,
00;20;01;08 - 00;20;06;03
Unknown
based on little things like that. And then the film obviously premiered at,
00;20;06;03 - 00;20;08;00
Unknown
Sundance, I think, or Cannes
00;20;08;00 - 00;20;09;21
Unknown
and then then Sundance,
00;20;09;21 - 00;20;10;26
Unknown
and then,
00;20;10;26 - 00;20;14;17
Unknown
Weinstein Company picked it up and it did incredibly well. And
00;20;14;17 - 00;20;15;24
Unknown
they teach it now, and a lot of,
00;20;15;24 - 00;20;19;18
Unknown
universities, you know, in terms of editing and
00;20;19;18 - 00;20;20;23
Unknown
there's just a lot going on.
00;20;20;27 - 00;20;21;08
Unknown
But
00;20;21;12 - 00;20;22;07
Unknown
but that's the whole thing
00;20;22;07 - 00;20;23;04
Unknown
you never know
00;20;23;04 - 00;20;24;09
Unknown
what you're going to work on
00;20;24;13 - 00;20;27;07
Unknown
if it's going to even come out. I look for that now.
00;20;27;12 - 00;20;34;14
Unknown
it's really important to me because I used to work with a lot of first time directors, and they would finish their film.
00;20;34;25 - 00;20;37;18
Unknown
and to me that was like, okay, that's like having a baby.
00;20;37;20 - 00;20;41;09
Unknown
you know, giving birth and leaving the baby on the sidewalk to fend for herself,
00;20;41;15 - 00;20;42;14
Unknown
you know, just
00;20;42;14 - 00;20;44;02
Unknown
directing, editing a film
00;20;44;02 - 00;20;45;06
Unknown
that's not enough.
00;20;45;22 - 00;20;47;24
Unknown
Most of it's life is going to happen afterwards.
00;20;47;24 - 00;20;51;26
Unknown
You have to raise the child. Yes. And a lot of people run out of money.
00;20;51;26 - 00;20;53;03
Unknown
You know, they don't have money
00;20;53;03 - 00;20;56;14
Unknown
for post or all sorts of stuff. And they just
00;20;56;14 - 00;20;57;28
Unknown
don't look past the film.
00;20;58;03 - 00;21;03;08
Unknown
they can make great films. No one will ever see you. So they sort of give up their deflated, they're,
00;21;03;08 - 00;21;05;24
Unknown
defeated and then they're broke.
00;21;05;24 - 00;21;08;00
Unknown
And then they're miserable, too. And bitter.
00;21;08;05 - 00;21;08;28
Unknown
But you got to,
00;21;08;28 - 00;21;12;04
Unknown
budget that all beforehand. You got to look at the
00;21;12;04 - 00;21;14;05
Unknown
big picture, not just, you know,
00;21;14;05 - 00;21;16;06
Unknown
wrap party. That reminds me of,
00;21;16;10 - 00;21;18;04
Unknown
the longtime director of
00;21;18;04 - 00;21;27;09
Unknown
the bond films. He says there is no succeeding when you make a bond film, there's only surviving because it's so big that
00;21;27;09 - 00;21;32;09
Unknown
you can't budget for the amount of energy it takes to direct a film like that.
00;21;32;11 - 00;21;34;22
Unknown
That's a good that's kind of how I felt for All Hail Bats.
00;21;34;26 - 00;21;35;18
Unknown
Actually,
00;21;35;18 - 00;21;38;24
Unknown
it really it was monstrous. I mean, for the budget,
00;21;38;26 - 00;21;42;02
Unknown
I felt like we pulled off a bond film for the amount of money
00;21;42;02 - 00;21;48;15
Unknown
and resources that we were allocated. It looks like it. You know, when I saw, like that location that
00;21;48;15 - 00;21;49;09
Unknown
mentioned,
00;21;49;09 - 00;21;51;12
Unknown
I love I still love that.
00;21;51;12 - 00;22;08;20
Unknown
I mean, it was actor driven, you know, characters in the actors. And it was funny and the writing was sharp and the auditions were fun. It was like boot camp. I really like that. I'm glad that you were on top of all those details, because there's a lot that, you know, could have fallen through the cracks there. Thank you.
00;22;08;20 - 00;22;10;16
Unknown
Harley, that means a lot. You're welcome.
00;22;10;16 - 00;22;12;05
Unknown
And if, like, Layla wasn't,
00;22;12;05 - 00;22;25;14
Unknown
so relatable, that would have kind of killed it. I think it is. One scary thing about our business, though, is that there are brilliant people out there who are age appropriate, who could have done it, and how do we find them? Where are they?
00;22;25;17 - 00;22;32;18
Unknown
Like, ask me projects and be like, how the fuck on earth was I not considered for that? And then there's what I see is like a pool of
00;22;32;22 - 00;22;41;06
Unknown
forgotten talent, lost souls, like floating around New York and L.A. and I'm like, it scares me. You guys, like, scares me. Yeah,
00;22;41;06 - 00;22;45;03
Unknown
overwhelming. It really is like when I put out a breakdown
00;22;45;03 - 00;22;47;06
Unknown
thinking, okay, a couple hundred people
00;22;47;06 - 00;22;55;18
Unknown
might submit. And then it's like within an hour, it's like 4900 and and I start like, I'm getting behind, I'm getting behind.
00;22;55;18 - 00;23;00;02
Unknown
like it or not, there's a lot of people like you, you know, or me or whatever.
00;23;00;02 - 00;23;02;10
Unknown
And you could go whatever way, but
00;23;02;10 - 00;23;03;17
Unknown
it's crazy.
00;23;03;20 - 00;23;07;19
Unknown
I don't know how you guys do it. Barely.
00;23;07;19 - 00;23;12;26
Unknown
I think going back to one thing, you were talking about, Harley, of what makes people stand out.
00;23;13;00 - 00;23;14;24
Unknown
I know for me,
00;23;14;24 - 00;23;15;07
Unknown
and
00;23;15;07 - 00;23;16;18
Unknown
don't know if you this. I'm doing like,
00;23;16;18 - 00;23;23;17
Unknown
mentorship and coaching of actors now. Like kind of life, I mean. Okay, wonderful. Yeah. Through my company, Vermillion.
00;23;23;24 - 00;23;28;27
Unknown
And, the thing that I find makes people really stand out is
00;23;29;01 - 00;23;31;19
Unknown
when they're energy. It's almost like when
00;23;31;19 - 00;23;39;12
Unknown
they're fearless about a lot of the externals, and they're able to kind of operate on this other plane energetically
00;23;39;16 - 00;23;46;26
Unknown
and really show up like full colors blazing in the world because they're not afraid to be seen anymore. Yes, I don't know.
00;23;46;26 - 00;23;49;27
Unknown
Does that resonate with you? It does. And it's like,
00;23;49;27 - 00;23;50;05
Unknown
right.
00;23;50;05 - 00;23;52;19
Unknown
they're at one with the universe. They're balanced.
00;23;52;27 - 00;23;56;02
Unknown
They turn it off, they turn it on their professional.
00;23;56;06 - 00;23;59;15
Unknown
You just made me think of Amy Hargraves, you know, an actress I've.
00;23;59;15 - 00;24;01;03
Unknown
worked with several times, and I
00;24;01;03 - 00;24;02;06
Unknown
just love her.
00;24;02;06 - 00;24;03;16
Unknown
She had it
00;24;03;16 - 00;24;08;16
Unknown
coming at, like, 8:50 a.m. or something, because I think she was going to get killed on law and order.
00;24;08;16 - 00;24;10;19
Unknown
And then she had to fly into homeland, and
00;24;10;23 - 00;24;12;25
Unknown
this was all in one day. And,
00;24;12;29 - 00;24;25;20
Unknown
you know, I'm thinking, oh my God, how stressful, you know, for an actor. And she came in and I forgot that her agent told me all that stuff, and she just did it once, and it was just perfect, you know, she was there.
00;24;25;24 - 00;24;27;08
Unknown
There was nothing else in her life,
00;24;27;12 - 00;24;33;20
Unknown
I knew she was going to get blown up, but, you know, it's special effects and then this and that, all sorts of stuff that day.
00;24;33;20 - 00;24;40;22
Unknown
But she was real. She was in the moment I saw her character's life before and after, you know, which is really important.
00;24;40;26 - 00;24;41;22
Unknown
It's not just,
00;24;41;22 - 00;24;42;18
Unknown
any role you play.
00;24;42;18 - 00;24;45;22
Unknown
It doesn't just just like in life, it doesn't start, finish,
00;24;45;22 - 00;24;48;00
Unknown
everything's kind of fluid,
00;24;48;00 - 00;24;48;24
Unknown
and so that
00;24;48;24 - 00;24;49;17
Unknown
the whole life
00;24;49;21 - 00;24;51;12
Unknown
of the character was there.
00;24;51;12 - 00;24;51;26
Unknown
And
00;24;51;26 - 00;24;54;02
Unknown
again I just saw this wonderful colors of
00;24;54;02 - 00;24;55;15
Unknown
light and energy.
00;24;55;19 - 00;24;58;21
Unknown
And I knew it and I think she was like the third person, but
00;24;58;21 - 00;25;00;04
Unknown
at that point I was like, she's it,
00;25;00;11 - 00;25;02;09
Unknown
So the way you're speaking about it,
00;25;02;09 - 00;25;04;26
Unknown
it's almost like it's so refreshing because
00;25;05;00 - 00;25;08;25
Unknown
the things that so many actors focus on of just
00;25;08;25 - 00;25;11;26
Unknown
getting in front of the camera and then
00;25;11;26 - 00;25;15;24
Unknown
booking it and that, like, those are the two focal points of what they do
00;25;15;24 - 00;25;17;29
Unknown
when the camera turns on and then just get the job.
00;25;18;03 - 00;25;24;08
Unknown
But really everything that you said is literally like everything else besides that. That's it. Yeah. Right.
00;25;24;08 - 00;25;28;12
Unknown
I mean, to me, your audition begins when you leave your house and you're on your way.
00;25;28;20 - 00;25;30;00
Unknown
I've had stories,
00;25;30;00 - 00;25;37;24
Unknown
from actors telling me about other actors, what they said in the restroom, you know, or doormen or front desk people saying,
00;25;37;24 - 00;25;39;22
Unknown
so-and-so was a real A-hole.
00;25;39;26 - 00;25;44;09
Unknown
Or someone, slammed that elevator. You know, they wouldn't wait for other people or
00;25;44;13 - 00;25;49;15
Unknown
all sorts of stuff. And people think, oh, right. They just think what matters is when they're in the room,
00;25;49;22 - 00;25;50;25
Unknown
when rolling to
00;25;50;25 - 00;25;51;09
Unknown
cut.
00;25;51;17 - 00;25;54;01
Unknown
it's like any job, though, you know, you
00;25;54;01 - 00;25;56;03
Unknown
want to work with someone who's
00;25;56;03 - 00;25;58;28
Unknown
easy to work with, who's not a drama queen,
00;25;59;02 - 00;26;00;19
Unknown
who, is balanced
00;26;00;19 - 00;26;03;02
Unknown
and intelligent and will work quickly and
00;26;03;02 - 00;26;04;00
Unknown
professional.
00;26;04;03 - 00;26;07;22
Unknown
Amy is the perfect example that little things
00;26;07;25 - 00;26;13;19
Unknown
you got to realize it's everybody's time, you know, not yours. The other actors auditioning,
00;26;13;19 - 00;26;15;00
Unknown
people in the room,
00;26;15;00 - 00;26;16;05
Unknown
everybody,
00;26;16;05 - 00;26;16;18
Unknown
the
00;26;16;18 - 00;26;18;09
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messengers, you know, everybody
00;26;18;09 - 00;26;28;01
Unknown
is all connected. And so you can't just think it's me, me, me, and no one's going to notice. You know, what's interesting to me is you say this actor is the third actor who came in.
00;26;28;01 - 00;26;29;12
Unknown
You said, this is it. We know it.
00;26;29;20 - 00;26;32;09
Unknown
That's got to be a funky mindset then to sit and watch
00;26;32;09 - 00;26;33;19
Unknown
rest coming in and
00;26;33;19 - 00;26;35;00
Unknown
giving them a fair shot.
00;26;35;04 - 00;26;35;20
Unknown
But knowing
00;26;35;20 - 00;26;46;18
Unknown
you pretty much already found it. That's interesting. Right. And so I think that happens. A more actor should realize that, you know, that there may already be a front runner or something, and that may,
00;26;46;18 - 00;26;48;10
Unknown
not give you much of an edge.
00;26;48;10 - 00;26;51;20
Unknown
But you still have to do your best and you could still knock the other person out,
00;26;51;24 - 00;26;52;17
Unknown
So don't
00;26;52;17 - 00;26;53;27
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be dissuaded. Again,
00;26;53;27 - 00;26;57;26
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comes back to every audition, a performance, and give your best, you
00;26;57;26 - 00;26;59;25
Unknown
and love it and
00;26;59;25 - 00;27;02;20
Unknown
it's so funny.
00;27;02;20 - 00;27;06;19
Unknown
I was just thinking again about the actors who said, sorry, I was three minutes late.
00;27;06;19 - 00;27;08;09
Unknown
This happened, this happened, this happened.
00;27;08;17 - 00;27;16;02
Unknown
If you're doing a play, you're not going to go up on stage and say, sorry, guys, I'm late. You're just going to go into it. You know, you're not.
00;27;16;06 - 00;27;19;01
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Everything's connected and and people,
00;27;19;01 - 00;27;20;16
Unknown
Shouldn't forget about that.
00;27;20;20 - 00;27;21;02
Unknown
Well,
00;27;21;02 - 00;27;26;10
Unknown
So when you say actors shouldn't take it personally. Yeah. You really mean it?
00;27;26;10 - 00;27;43;26
Unknown
I mean, just the things that you've had going on in your life in the past couple of years, like, I can't imagine working on top of that. But yet you were still casting. So it really is just a proof that you can't take the casting directors behavior personally because they have lives. We like to look at it as actors, but you have a life.
00;27;43;28 - 00;27;55;15
Unknown
Yeah. So many actors were like, yeah, I'm doing a zoom reading. And then I wasn't getting back to people, because I didn't feel like I had to let everybody know what was going on, you know? Right. And then
00;27;55;15 - 00;28;01;25
Unknown
people started getting really aggressive. You not getting back to me. It's uncalled for and unacceptable. And I'm like, oh, God.
00;28;01;25 - 00;28;02;15
Unknown
Wow.
00;28;02;19 - 00;28;18;16
Unknown
And I'm like, I'm never working with these people again. But it's just amazing how people thought their lives were everything, you know. Is there anything Harley, on your end? You want to leave the listeners with anything as a closing thought, anything on your mind?
00;28;19;06 - 00;28;20;21
Unknown
keep your eyes open.
00;28;20;21 - 00;28;22;21
Unknown
and never think it's all or nothing.
00;28;22;21 - 00;28;26;05
Unknown
I've sort of let life happen and organically, I've
00;28;26;05 - 00;28;26;20
Unknown
just,
00;28;26;20 - 00;28;28;14
Unknown
gone with the flow.
00;28;28;14 - 00;28;33;11
Unknown
but I'm still open to other things, you know, who knows, in ten years, maybe I'll direct something
00;28;33;15 - 00;28;34;03
Unknown
and I like
00;28;34;03 - 00;28;35;00
Unknown
the unknown.
00;28;35;03 - 00;28;36;24
Unknown
That's exciting to me. And that's why
00;28;36;24 - 00;28;38;16
Unknown
think a lot of people like to be actors because
00;28;38;16 - 00;28;40;15
Unknown
They don't want to have everything set in stone,
00;28;40;15 - 00;28;45;11
Unknown
they don't want to think they're working for a corporation for 35, 40 years. And,
00;28;45;11 - 00;28;46;18
Unknown
that's their life.
00;28;46;18 - 00;28;47;12
Unknown
they want,
00;28;47;12 - 00;28;49;07
Unknown
to live life on their terms.
00;28;49;07 - 00;28;50;08
Unknown
Yeah. And,
00;28;50;08 - 00;28;51;09
Unknown
to,
00;28;51;09 - 00;28;53;15
Unknown
to live like anything can happen.
00;28;53;22 - 00;29;00;13
Unknown
that's what's beautiful about not knowing the future. You know, it could be bad, it could be good. But that's what's exciting.
00;29;00;13 - 00;29;03;09
Unknown
That's what life is about. And so
00;29;03;09 - 00;29;04;13
Unknown
just keep that in mind.
00;29;04;13 - 00;29;07;16
Unknown
As an actor, just enjoy the process because that's
00;29;07;16 - 00;29;08;21
Unknown
what it is.
00;29;08;24 - 00;29;08;27
Unknown
You
00;29;08;27 - 00;29;10;06
Unknown
it's not the outcome. It's
00;29;10;06 - 00;29;14;23
Unknown
it's the process. It's day all day. It's a minute out a minute and just enjoy it.
00;29;14;23 - 00;29;19;18
Unknown
life is short. Thank you. Yeah, that's right on. Thank you.
00;29;19;22 - 00;29;27;12
Unknown
Such a pleasure to have you, Harley. Thank you so much for your time today. You look gorgeous, too. Thank you. Skip. You both.
00;29;27;14 - 00;29;35;07
Unknown
Yeah. God bless you, Harley. You've been through a lot. And just keep hanging in there making beautiful work. Thank you so much.
00;29;35;07 - 00;30;02;25
Unknown
The Vermillion Podcast is sponsored by Vermillion, a home for artists. We offer classes, coaching and community for creatives and innovators in the arts. If you're ready to find your voice and build the life of your dreams, we are here to support you every step of the way. Check out Club vermillion.com and schedule a free call today.
