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Welcome to The Vermillion Podcast, a free audio library of business strategies, creative inspiration and industry knowledge for actors, filmmakers, writers and anyone looking to activate their creative potential. I'm Nisha Culver, a writer director who helps artists build the careers that they dream of. I really hope that this podcast inspires you in some way. Thanks for tuning in.
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There is so much going on in the world right now. It is overwhelming.
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It is disorienting. And it's also kind of hard to get things done right now. Have you noticed that
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there's a lot of conflict and if you're an artist and chances are if you're listening to this podcast you are,
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then you're going to be extra sensitive to conflict.
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I know I am
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if the vibe is off between me and a collaborator friend.
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I mean, anyone really a neighbor,
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I can't really function.
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And I wanted to dedicate this episode to conflict
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and to giving you some ways to think about conflict that might be new and that, I hope, are going to be helpful.
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We may not be able to solve the conflict that's going on around us
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on a city, state, national, international level.
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It's insane to try most of the time,
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but we can clear up the conflict that's in our own lives.
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And the more you do that, honestly,
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I find the easier life gets.
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So a little bit of discomfort trying to face the issue, but then
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once it's faced,
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things are just a lot better.
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So I'm going to talk to you about conflict.
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I've been reading a lot about conflict, about conflict resolution, conflict management,
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which is a field of study that has come a really long way
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in the past few decades.
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And I'm going to share some tools with you
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that I hope are going to be useful.
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So
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the first thing with conflict is that we
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want to get away from the idea of winning a conflict,
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who's right and who's wrong.
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Establishing who's right and who's wrong isn't really the goal.
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This may sound a little bit,
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cozy
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softy, you know, hyper emotional. Well, that's because conflict is based on emotion most of the time, right? It's
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not logical.
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And if it were logical, it'd be very calm. But conflict, the whole point of it is that it's fueled by emotion.
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So the solution is going to be emotional. It's not about right or wrong.
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not about proving that you're right.
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That's a debate.
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But conflict when it's emotionally driven is about I'm about to give you a
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a goal here that will revolutionize your conflict management.
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The goal in your conflicts is to skillfully tend
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to the other person's pain and yearning,
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while simultaneously tending to your own pain and yearning.
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Now, that's very
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high level.
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And that comes from a,
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practitioner called James Fishkill, who I absolutely love.
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He's Australian, he's amazing. He's done so much
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relational study and work
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as a
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relational coach.
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So you're trying to skillfully tend to your own pain and theirs, simultaneously weighting each of them equally.
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Yours isn't more important than theirs. Theirs is a more important than yours.
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So that's going to be the framework that I'm approaching. This conversation around conflict.
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And let's just try it on.
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see how it feels. For the purposes of this episode.
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And I am going to caveat that
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there are supposedly 1 in 25 people who, in the United States have no conscience.
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AKA sociopaths. So we're not talking about conflict with those people.
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We're not talking about
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individuals who, for whatever
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brain neurological reason, they have no sense of remorse.
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That's a different episode for a different time. But for this, I'm just talking about regular old human beings who do have a conscience and how to get through conflict with them.
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Conflict is on my mind recently because I am going through a conflict with a family member,
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and it's really hard.
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It's really confusing. Pretty much feeling every emotion about it.
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And,
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the good, the bad, you know, like, all the core emotions and then all the sort of extra ones, as well.
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And I've been thinking about
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for months how to handle
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this really sticky conflict.
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And that kind of has driven some of my research into the topic and,
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my deep thoughts about it.
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So it's a topic that's really dear to my heart, and
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I feel like the one that I'm facing,
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it's decades old.
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And if these tools can work for that conflict, they can probably work for almost any conflict.
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And so far, I am making good progress with this person.
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So,
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it's. Yeah, it's a family member. So
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try this on and see if this works for you. And let me know if these tools are helpful.
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I want to introduce the concept of emotion versus analysis.
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And.
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There's a difference between the two. Emotions are the emotions that we feel. And analysis is what our brain tells us is going on. It's a story that we make up about things to explain what's happening.
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Now. The thing about emotions is that
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they are always right.
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If an emotion is a color, let's say the color red.
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The color red is not wrong for existing.
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You could say, I wish she wasn't wearing a red shirt, but nevertheless I am wearing a red shirt.
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It just is. It exists
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and
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a yellow tomato is still a tomato, even if most tomatoes are red. The fact that the tomato is yellow
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doesn't make it wrong. It just is a yellow tomato.
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So
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if you are having a reaction
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to something
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like an emotion, like say, anger,
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and
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isn't something that you want to be feeling
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and it isn't maybe even something that would be normally felt under those circumstances,
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like let's say, you know,
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somebody says something in a conversation that's pretty innocuous and you find yourself suddenly filled with rage.
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It doesn't mean the emotion is wrong.
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You are not wrong for feeling that emotion. Emotions are always right. How do we know they're right? Because they exist? Because they are
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the existence of that emotion itself
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is self-justifying.
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So if your emotions are always right, because there's going to be a deeper reason for feeling that even if it comes up with seemingly no logical explanation, there will be some backstory as to why it came up for you, why you were triggered,
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etc.
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but if your emotions are always right, that means that the other person's emotions are always right as well.
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Whether you can see what's under the iceberg or not.
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So you just have to go into a conflict assuming that whatever they're feeling is justified,
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whatever they are feeling is correct.
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And once you give them that grace, the whole landscape of the conflict is going to change.
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Story, on the other hand, aka analysis,
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analysis is always incomplete.
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In effect, it's always wrong.
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Any analysis that you make up about someone is likely going to increase
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the conflict.
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It moves you away from their emotional experience, so it moves you away from understanding their pain
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and understanding their yearning.
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And it moves you into a right, wrong narrative that you've constructed
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to try and simplify the situation
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so that you can come out
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correct
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analysis is very binary.
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And of course, emotion is not binary, and neither is conflict, and neither is being a human being.
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So
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whenever possible, stay away from analysis and
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stay in emotion.
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It's really going to transform the way that you go through conflict in the way that the other person responds to you.
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So that's my first strategy, is
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when it comes to emotion versus analysis, stay in emotion.
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the second strategy I want to give you is
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for you to take responsibility for showing up. Better to conflict.
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Gay Hendrick talks about.
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With two people, it's not. Each person is responsible for 50% of the relationship.
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It's 100%, 100%. So
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if each person takes a 100% responsibility
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for that relationship,
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then chances are you're going to have a much more successful relationship.
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So you're going to want to take responsibility and learn about conflict resolution.
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There's a number of really great books on this.
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can just go out and find these books and really, really dig in to what
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world experts have already written about this subject. So a couple of titles are Nonviolent Communication,
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We've got Conscious Loving by Gaye Hendrix.
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He and I believe his wife wrote that book. And it's just an amazing,
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companion for anyone who wants to move out of codependence and into interdependence in relationship.
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There's also The Body Keeps the score really, really seminal read.
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It's from the guy who invented and discovered PTSD.
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It's a very,
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dense book and a little bit
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triggering at times, but it's a really great read to understand the human mind.
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And then one of my favorites is Debbie Allen The Dark Side of the Light Chasers, which is all about shadow work.
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These books are revolutionary for you, understanding yourself so that you can show
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better to any conflicts that you might be having with people.
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Leads me to strategy number three, which is to
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heal your trauma, deal with your shit, heal your triggers so that you are able to be less reactive when you're dealing with conflict.
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I cover a lot of ways to do this. In,
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an episode a few weeks ago
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on
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mental and emotional support,
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so I'm not going to go back over all of those strategies.
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But
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I will say that some of the best ways to heal trauma that I found are
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somatic healing.
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EMDR
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and Parts work I've just started working with
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IRF practitioner who does parts work and it's
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it's extraordinary.
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But the best qualification
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that a practitioner can have for helping you heal your trauma, it's not a degree on the wall.
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It's not
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where they went to school.
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It's just do you feel safe with them?
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So find a practitioner that you feel safe with, and then try to see them as much as you can, as much as make sense
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and really, you know, have them be your safe person.
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And you're,
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landing spot
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so that you feel that somebody is going to receive you while you are navigating this conflict. It's really important that you feel like you have somebody not on your side, as in you're right and the other person's wrong, but somebody on your side to catch you and hold you and carry you through.
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On that topic,
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you're going to want to create a safe container for this conflict.
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And you can actually ask the other person for help in creating this safe container. Now, what does a safe container look like for them?
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Let's start by just desiring to create a safe container for them, like you want them to no longer receive harm from you. You don't want them to be harmed by this conflict resolution. Like let's just start there.
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That alone may take a little while to get to,
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because a lot of us,
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it's very natural. We actually want to hurt the other person, and we continually want to hurt the other person. Even when the conflict
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is dead, we still bury resentment for them or whatever.
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So get honest with yourself and ask yourself if you actually
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wish them to feel safe or not.
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And maybe you don't. Maybe you want them to feel more pain. Well, that's a you thing. You have to go and work that out before you can come to this conflict.
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Constructively.
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So
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once you have dealt with that and you no longer want them to be
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in pain,
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figure out what they need to be safe in this conflict resolution.
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Figure out what you need to be safe.
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And then do it. Whatever it is, do it. If they say, I only want to do this with a mediator, or
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I only want to meet and talk about this in public, or,
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you know, I,
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I can only text about this. I don't want to see you in person if you can just try and accommodate their request.
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And prioritize your safety and theirs simultaneously.
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Okay. This next strategy is kind of edgy, but,
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I find it to be true and very helpful,
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which is
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to assume that the person that you're in conflict with
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is not as evolved as you are.
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And what that does is it really forces you to take responsibility and to be a grown up, not the only grown up, but definitely a grown up in the room.
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And if you can hold them and yourself,
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even if they can't hold you like they can't kind of
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hold the complexity of both of you being right and both both of your emotional experiences at once.
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Like, that's just too much for them.
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If you're able to do it, there is
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a chance that that conflict will be resolved.
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So take responsibility for doing that and being able to
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have space for the complexity of both of your experiences.
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Don't assume that they're going to be,
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that they're going to have done as much work on themselves as you have.
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Unfortunately.
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And the people that listen to this podcast, you know, you are very involved. You are very
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responsible, take responsibility kind of people. So I wouldn't be surprised if
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you find yourself having to be that grown up,
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in a lot of rooms that you're in.
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Sorry, but
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there are benefits to that.
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Okay.
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So what might you need to create a safe container for both you and this other person?
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Here's some things to consider.
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Time.
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Maybe you need some time to cool off first
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distance.
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Putting some distance between you,
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third party, whether that's a family member,
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friend, a therapist, a mediator.
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Ground rules for this conflict resolution
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for even interacting with each other.
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Repercussions,
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boundaries and potentially repercussions to those boundaries. So I have a boundary that I don't want you to touch me during this conversation. And if you do touch me, I'm going to leave the room. Stuff like that.
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And, you know, sometimes
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you might need to block them for a little bit. This is an extreme cases, but you know, if they're really
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not respecting your boundaries and they're
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very activated and they can't control themselves,
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you might have to block them or just mute them for a while until you can regulate yourself.
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then definitely create
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support system for yourself so that after the conflict, chat or chats
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plural, you can go and you can get supported again and feel okay again.
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One thing to consider is
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this is also kind of edgy,
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but
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look for the places where this other person might be right?
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Do they have a point?
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Is there something that they might be correct about? And part of your emotional activation is that you don't want to look at how they are, right? It's too painful. It's too shameful.
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consider that maybe they're right. And another way of looking at that is
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that if they're saying things that are really hurtful, it might not be that it's true or the full truth,
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but they may just want you to
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taste.
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Meaning understand a piece of the pain that they have felt from you. So they have felt hurt by you, and they hurt you so that you can taste what they have experienced. They actually are trying to share
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their experience with you in a really kind of messed up way.
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Conflict is one of the best containers for growth.
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And
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as my coach, Flynn Skidmore, will say,
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there are certain kinds of healing that cannot be done alone.
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You can only read so many books. You can only journal so much. And sometimes we need that other person to be in conflict with us so that we can grow. They are actually required for this next phase of growth for ourselves. So conflict can actually be
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a real blessing.
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And if you find yourself really hurt by what's going on with this other person,
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see if you can sit with that hurtful truth
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and really search yourself and figure out what part of this is true.
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Do I like that it's true,
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or do I not like that it's true? Are they actually showing me something that I don't like about myself, and that I want to change? Are they
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are they an agent of change here to help me in their own way,
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become a bigger and better version of myself?
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And in that way, conflict can be
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one of the biggest blessings in your life.
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I know that five years ago, you know, I've had this
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this terrible breakup. I was going to marry somebody and they fell apart
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and
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the
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conflict that I experienced during that time.
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Gave way to everything good in my life now.
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And it was because I really looked at, how did I get here? How did I get into this conflict?
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Is there something to what was said to me about me?
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I mean, his whole
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family, insane
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family was also involved.
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So a lot of untruths and
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false allegations and weird,
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stuff going on there.
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But I looked at what was true, and I was able to
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separate out what felt like something that I wanted to change. And the more I kind of
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dug away and
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got rid of
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pain and just looked at like, what is here? Like an archeological dig, like what is here? What are the bones of truth?
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The more I was like, oh, whoa, that's that's a lot of bones.
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That's a lot of stuff that I want to change.
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And it ended up being the architecture for
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this whole new era of my life that has been so amazing.
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And I
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have a boyfriend now, and he's amazing. Much more amazing than
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that other relationship. So there is a happy ending to it. I never would have
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ended up with the person I'm with now if I hadn't gone through that.
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So
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embrace conflict as maybe something that is actually here to help.
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I hope that this is useful to you, and I hope that you can navigate whatever conflicts you might be going through with ease. Love,
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and kindness for yourself and for
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others.
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So thinking of you. Wishing you all the best and I'll see you next week.
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The Vermillion Podcast is sponsored by Vermillion, a home for artists. We offer classes, coaching and community for creatives and innovators in the arts. If you're ready to find your voice and build the life of your dreams, we are here to support you every step of the way. Check out Club vermillion.com and schedule a free call today.
