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Welcome to Film on Tape, a free audio library for creatives in film and television. My name is Misha Calvert, and I've worked as an actor, writer, director and producer for many decades. I had so many questions when I was first getting started in New York, and I just wanted fast, free answers. That is what this library is for.
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The work that you do as a creative. It's so important. I really hope that this library is going to help get your work out there. Film On Tape is sponsored by Vermilion, a coaching and educational company for creatives. You can learn more at Clubvermilion.com.
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This week. I am so excited to be bringing back an episode that I recorded with casting director Coco Kleppinger, who is a bicoastal casting director. She was also an actor, and she's just one of my favorite casting directors that I've ever met. She's so nice. She's so kind and smart. Smart as heck. And she's done these huge projects.
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She was on the casting team of It, the sequel to It, The Disaster Artist, Unpregnant and Shazam! And she specializes in horror films and also teaches a lot, too. So.
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If you want to book her as a teacher, as a coach, I really recommend her. And I'm just so, so excited about this conversation and I can't wait to share it with you. Here we go.
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Coco. So you were an actor before you were a casting director for 18 years of your life, right? For 17? Yeah. 17. Okay. Pardon me. 17. So it's just really easy for me to do the math because I started when I was 13 and I started in casting when I was 30, so. Oh, yeah. Okay. That is super easy. All right.
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So my formative years. Yeah, exactly. Those are some good ones. All right. Well tell us about that. So what caused the switch from actor to casting? What was that journey and process like for you? How did it come about? My dad used to joke that I lit the candle at both ends and then took a blowtorch to the center.
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I basically didn't sleep from the age of 14 to 28. I was doing classes. I come from Wyoming, so I was driving to Denver multiple times a week to take classes, meet with my agents, audition for things. And I loved it. I wanted to get every little bit of it I could get out of acting. And then I found when I was 29 that I wasn't having fun anymore.
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It felt way stressful and I just wasn't enjoying it. And so I'm a person who really believes in following your bliss and following your passion. So I immediately thought, okay, well, this is a problem. Let's test it for a while and see if it's true or not, or if I'm just having a bad month because as actors, you know you have bad months.
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And I found I didn't I really didn't enjoy it anymore. And so I just wanted to get out of the way and help other actors if I could. And I basically watched the credits of a film and went through the jobs and thought, not qualified, not like not qualified. And I came up with 3 or 4 that I liked and I was very lucky.
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I emailed a casting director, Rich Delia, who had auditioned me before and been kind to me, and pretty much two weeks later, I think 2 or 3 weeks later, he called and said, hey, I just came out on my own to do my own thing. I could use some help. So I came in and it was perfect and I felt like I had come home.
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I felt like I'd found the perfect job for me. I love this phrase coming home, and it reminds me of another quote when you find your purpose, it's like stepping onto a moving train. Did you find that? Yeah. I mean, it was hard at first. There were a lot of things I didn't know, and there were a lot of times where, bless him, he was so patient with me.
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Rich would come out of his office and say, hey, can you do this for me? And I'd say, yeah, And then he'd go back into his office and I would freak out and I would Google, like, how do I make a spreadsheet? Because as an actor, you never have to do that. So it was tough. But I knew immediately that I wanted to learn it, but I wanted to do it, and I've loved it ever since.
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So I'm lucky. A lot of people don't know what they want, and I've just been a person who's always known what I want and not been afraid to pivot. I sense that in you. I sense the unafraid ness. There is something very powerful about even being in the virtual room with you. I think that's what I really wanted.
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That's why I wanted to have you as a guest on this. I did a few workshops, Misha with Coco, I think two now. And just the way you know, you're in the top echelon in terms of present ness to me, in terms of your engagement with the actors and sharing something pretty real, honest, open, profound, and you're not holding back.
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And it's powerful. I think we are in an industry where you have to be brave. A lot of times it's that feeling of, we've all had it when we're in high school or junior high, when we're waiting in the wings for our entrance, and that feeling of panic of like, oh, I can't do this, what am I going to do?
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And then you do it anyway. You just go out. And I mean, if you could see me in other contexts, you know, doing my taxes, I'm terrified. But this - it's important as artists that the thing that we can do for ourselves, the art, is brave because the rest of our lives are going to be terrifying. Yes. Oh, that's a good way to put it.
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What you're speaking about, Coco, that month where you're like, is this just a bad month? And, you know, I'm a filmmaker and a showrunner. I started as an actor, so I totally understand that it's a journey, right? And I'm seeing a lot of actors ask those same questions right about now, two years of hiatus, and now we're coming back.
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How do you reckon with the difference between burnout, the existential despair of being an artist and the uncertainty, and "no, this seems to be a pivot", like, how do you tell the difference between those different things? Well, I mean, time is one of them. I did take a whole year of still acting, still auditioning to really test the waters and really get honest with myself in situations.
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So when I was on a set asking myself, am I happy? What would make me happier? Do I envy other people on the set, their jobs, that sort of thing. But also, I mean, I've had so many years of I used to call it a marriage. I mean, this beautiful I agreed to marry art and still am just married to a different part of it.
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But the marriage wasn't working the way it was structured, and I think anyone who's been in a long relationship with a job or a hobby or a passion or a love affair or anything, you know, when it's just that you're having hard times and then there's that different feel when it's like, no, it's over, and I didn't. I met actors who were bitter about the career they didn't have or the chances they didn't get, and I never wanted to be that.
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I didn't want to leave acting until I was done with it, until I could give a job to someone who looked just like me and not missed the job. And Rich actually helped with that, he said when I first started working for him, if you ever want to audition for any of the projects that we're working on, you can audition.
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And it was a really good litmus test because I never auditioned for a single project. I never wanted to. There were projects. I mean, obviously I worked on a lot of things. I've worked on a lot of things that I love, but I never wanted to be in them that way. So I think a lot of actors are frustrated right now, and I feel that I sense that in classes.
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But there's a difference between being frustrated that you're not getting to do what you want to do, and being frustrated that what you think you want to do isn't actually what you want to do. And so being a cognizant of that difference is important, especially because this is a this is an industry where the difference between one kind of I love you...
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And a different kind of I love you are so vast. You have to be really attuned to your instrument, which is you. And so I was really attuned to myself. Then I realized it wasn't working. Love that. I mean, I feel very confident that I could audition way better now, because I've been on this side of the desk for so long.
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I just don't want to. So I opened my own company this fall, actually. Okay, so. Oh, okay. Yeah. So I'm officially Coco Kleppinger Casting, but great. Okay. You're always freelance. I mean, it's, Julia Roberts is freelance. You know, everyone's. That's true. Everyone in the business is freelance. So it's that's really I think that's one of the harder parts about getting into this industry is you're never going to have job security.
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I mean, the head of Warner Brothers when the pandemic hit was probably like, oh no, what's going to happen to my job? So there's a line in a Fiona Apple song that says, I'm good at being uncomfortable, and I think that's important. I think you need to be really good at not having total job security and just keep always looking for what's next.
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I feel like that could be a common misconception. And it's nice to hear out loud because I think some actors feel that way. But we may not understand that sometimes you do too. And producers do. I have producer friends who are between projects, and they have the same cycle that I see in actors. It's hilarious. I wish I could film it and show actors because when they're between jobs, they're also antsy.
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They're also pacing their rooms. They're also asking why the industry doesn't work for them. You know, I mean, they have the same questions and concerns as actors do. So actors, I mean, really, if I could pump one piece of information into actors, it's that you're not alone in this industry. You're a valuable piece of a big puzzle with a lot of pieces in it, and every piece feels alone...
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At some point. And it's not true. It's important to know that your job isn't the only job. And, both for the bad parts of your ego and the good parts. When you feel isolated as an actor, you either feel like the most important person in the world or you feel like nothing. And so having a friend who's a writer, having a friend who's a visual artist of some kind, having all those people around you, you understand that you're all just working to tell stories, to put beautiful things into the world, or to put interesting things into the world.
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And it's hard for everybody. I'm curious, Coco, what kind of disappointments do casting directors have? Because so often actors think casting directors are these impenetrable, you know, sphinx-like gatekeepers, but you have disappointments and hard days just like everybody else. Like, what are some of the things - the stumbling blocks for CDs? I mean, I get told no, frankly.
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I get told like, very gently and kindly to fuck off millions of times a day. I call agents to say, you know, is Ben Affleck potentially interested in my project? And they say, oh, no, he's not available, or no, you don't have a bazillion dollars or no whatever. And then there's the actors that I root for. I would say the most heartbreak is when an actor comes in auditions, does a great job.
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They get a callback with the director, producers, that kind of thing, and they psych themselves out of it in some way. And I see them come in and I have to actively watch them give up on themselves. And that sucks. That's really hard. And I feel like part of what I teach and Brett knows this is, is actor self-care, because I want to see less of that.
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Frankly, it's a selfish thing for me. I would like to see less of actors looking around the audition room, seeing maybe four people that look alike but not like them, and saying, oh, I'm not going to get this job when maybe they're the person we're looking for. That's heartbreaking. Yeah, well do you must also know and meet so so so so so so so so many good talented actors and sometimes either it can take years, years, years, years before you can get them a booking or potentially never get them a booking.
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And that's got to be rough on both ends too. I mean, there's no guarantees in this industry, even for good people. Yeah, and it all depends on which set of eyes sees you. So you could be the best actor in the entire universe. But if you live in northern Alaska and you never get beyond community theater, then you never become famous.
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So I always say to actors that fame and art are very different things, and money and art are very different things. And so you could be a successful actor for your whole life and not have made money off of it. I have friends who I think are brilliant, who've never taken off the way I think they should. Put that on a t-shirt and then send me a t-shirt.
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Yes, I'm starting a t-shirt business. I'm so glad you guys came to my podcast. Yes. No, but it's true. I mean, it really is. When they say luck, it's not - it is luck because it's - you have to have, you know, Spielberg sees your senior high school year play and loves you. It's a lot easier to get into the industry than if you don't have the right eyes on you at any point.
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God, this is fascinating. I love your sense of spiritual grounded-ness and the fact that you mentioned actor self-care. I actually have created a masterclass on actor self-care. That's what it's called. It's being edited right now. Yeah, because I think every actor needs that. But so so yeah. How do you recommend artists get themselves into that good headspace and prepare themselves for success?
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Well, it's understanding a little bit of perspective is really helpful. I think I mean, you have to understand that you're really important part of the process and that I tell actors this all the time because I really believe it, that what you do is magic. It is that kind of importance. At the same time, you have to understand that a lot of other people are putting different kinds of magic into the story, and that the end story has to be all of you.
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When actors think that they're the most important part of the story, we get distortion, which makes people unhappy. There has to be balance there. But when an actor understands their worth, but also the worth of the people around them, it helps a lot, because then they take care of their instrument because they understand that their body and their imagination and their mind are are very valuable.
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They don't think of it as I'm one and a bazillion people. They think of like, well, what I have in my head is unique to me. So I shouldn't, you know, become a raging alcoholic or do coke in a bathroom somewhere in Hollywood. Yeah, like making good choices that are going to protect your imagination and your hope, which is really what you have as an artist.
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You know, we see now that we're kind of opening Hollywood for real, which I'm so thankful for, that you don't need to have a perfect body to be in this industry, that you don't need to have a certain height or you don't need to, you know, you can be a differently abled person. You can be, but you have to have imagination to make this work, and you have to have hope.
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And so a big part of actor self-care for me is feeding that imagination in different ways. And getting imaginative with how you feed it, you know? I mean, just reading scripts over and over is going to kill it, but going to art galleries and music venues and and having artistic conversations with friends and walking out of a movie and not just saying I liked it, but why did you like it?
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Why did you not like it? Making sure that that instrument's constantly working, and feeding it fun. You know, reading novels sometimes that are crap novels but have an interesting story. I think all of that's really important, and I think when an actor gets scared, they tend to think that they have to buckle down and work harder, which I think will kill the imagination.
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And I think often when they go at the work with an iron fist, they neglect how delicate it is. You know, if I believe it's raining and you come in and tell me it's not, I lose that belief. So when I force myself like, it's raining, it's raining, it's raining, your brain is going to say, no, it's not like it's not.
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But if you find a gentler way to deal with yourself as an artist because it's a more sensitive instrument than we give it credit for. Does that make sense? Yeah, I love that that gentle focus. And one thing to as an artist that I have found, because you never know where that inspiration is going to come from or how it's going to express itself through you.
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So really, especially as actors, every single moment of presence in your life becomes important. So like going on a morning walk, I trying to bring the same amount of presence and focus and importance to that as to an audition, as to, you know, getting ready for bed, as to a cafe conversation with a friend. And I mean not to bleed into laziness or lack of effort, but just honoring.
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Okay, this is another part of me, and this is another part of me, and it takes the pressure off of having to, you know, succeed or execute 1,000% at the acting part. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Smart way to put it. Make sure. Yeah. Because we're more than just an actor. You know, we're humans first. I mean, that's the really the lesson the last 3 or 4 years.
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I'm a human being on this planet first. And I want to enjoy that. Yeah. Enjoy it. I want to live it. And I think for a while, I don't know, I wasn't quite doing it correctly. I think I was way, way in over my head with the grind, you know, took over. Yes. And it's very easy because we are not - we're in an industry that's a weird mix of art, which should have nothing to do with commerce, and commerce, which generally has nothing to do with art.
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And so the commerce side tells the actor, well, you better be productive. You better be working. You better be making something happen. And the artistic side says, wait a second, just relax, then let the ideas come to you. And so those are very much at odds with each other. And actors feel trapped between those two worlds and we see it.
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I mean, an example I would give of this is we see a director or an actor hit it right for the first time, and then everyone wants them to do a million projects. We want to see. We want to binge watch Will Ferrell for two years. And Will Ferrell has talked about this. When he hit it, he wanted to do every film he could do.
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And so he was doing so many films a year that at some point, the creative part burnt out a little bit, and he had to walk away from it because he was too focused on like, let's get this done, let's get these words shoved in my head. Let's get this scene done, let's get this take right, that he wasn't thinking about the character.
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And then he gave himself a little break. And then we got some of the best Will Ferrell stuff we ever got. Yet, I mean, I love him, so I think we'll have amazing things from him his whole life. But we see that with directors. I mean, I'm not someone had that same thing happen famously where too many we we expected so much of him and it was like, we want another success and another one and another one and we want another one.
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And at some point he had to take a break because we were disappointed more and more with the quality. Because it's not a factory, we're not factories. We think of ourselves as these very sturdy things. But you wouldn't play a violin with a hammer, and we play it with more and more delicate things, and we don't realize that the imagination is just threads.
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And so if you play them with hard instruments, you're going to break that. And so I think stillness and gentleness and quiet is something that actors don't ever value enough.
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I am so excited to tell you that I'm launching a brand new slate of classes that are incredibly helpful on my website. Some of the classes include on camera acting technique and how to self produce your own film actor self-care, which is something that nobody talks about and how to write a feature film in ten days, which I'm going to teach you how I did it and how you can do it too.
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And believe me when I say I poured my heart into these courses. Go to Club vermilion.com. I am so excited about this website. I can't wait to work with you.
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What are some crazy things that you've seen in auditions? Anything you can share? Well, I was there for the whole Pennywise auditions for it. And you know, when you have a bunch of people. Because we auditioned, male or female, or other, we auditioned a whole bunch of age ranges, but everyone wanted to be scary. And so I was in various auditions.
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I've been choked. I've been spit on. I've been. I've had the ones that choked you. I had to punch a wall, like two inches in front of my face, through the wall, went through the wall and their hand came out of the wall. And blood splatter came at me. I've been, What are you talking about? I mean, I, I was in a situation where I was reading with an actor.
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We really wanted him to get the part. The directors were in the room, and we didn't have his his costar, who had already been cast. And so they kept moving my chair until I was sitting next to the actor, and I was like, I'm on camera at this point. This is weird. I'm not in the seat. I'm not going to be in the movie with him, and it's a brother and sister, but they end up he's he's having a mental breakdown and he ends up kissing her, and he ended up kissing me and he got the role and I was really happy about it.
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But I've always looked back on that and thought there were a lot of people in that room, and no one thought that was weird except me, apparently. So. I mean, I'm happy that to get the job done and of course, having been an actor for a long time, I have no problem, you know, participating. But it is a privilege to be able to tell people to do things in front of you.
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And it is kind of, an it is an occupational hazard to, to be on the receiving end of that. Because if you want someone to be really violent, they have to be violent to a person. And often actors don't see their leader as a person. They see them as a tool to help them get the job.
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And so the person who punched the wall in front of my face, he called later to apologize for the damage to the wall because he didn't see a person in front of him. He didn't think he might have freaked me out. The person who choked me never apologized. I mean, they all think of me as a tool to get them a job.
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They don't think of me as a person who then has to do that 50 times a day, which is something I wish actors could do a little bit check their ego about, because actors will always complain about bad readers and there will always be bad readers. And that's, I think, tragic. For an audition. I think you need a good reader for an audition, but actors, then when they get a good reader, they if they don't, they don't think of that as the opposite, as a good thing.
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I think it's a bit like literally in your case, think that they are punching up because a good reader is a part of the decision making team. So never realizing that they are literally punching across, right? Right face. Yeah, because that actor, I will never cast that actor that's unsafe set behavior. You know, I mean, for Pennywise specifically, we were looking for someone.
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Yes, who could be very scary, but also could be around 12 year olds all day and not be a problem. We couldn't have him punching a child on set or choking a child. We needed someone who could understand that imagination. And Brett and I've talked about this. This is where we get into my method. Yeah, I was just going to say this goes there.
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Yeah. But I mean, there's a really good article out in GQ right now for Mads Mikkelsen. And he, he and I share very similar sentiments on this, but I, I tend to think that the way we think of method acting today as, as bullshit, as a a privilege to the point of spitting in the face of the people you're working with, sometimes literally, which appalls me.
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I mean, if we want to get into the history of it, you know, Stanislavski on his deathbed recanted. He said, please don't teach method this way. Like I think he understood that the industry will always change. Storytelling will always be adjusting, reframing itself, refining itself and the way we go about telling stories will do the same. So it's been bastardized into this kind of crutch of like, I don't have the imagination to imagine that I hate you, so I have to be mean to you on set every day for, you know, sometimes two months because I can't do the work enough for it to be real without that.
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And it is a privilege because we don't see people getting called out for method work when they're doing something nice. You know, no one says this person was method, so they gave me chocolates or whatever. You only hear about it when it's I wouldn't talk to my coworkers. I, I sent obnoxious gifts to my coworkers. It gets to a point where it's like, you are not the most important person on set.
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How dare you make everyone else's job so much harder? Yeah, because you felt that you needed to, you know, boundaries. Yes. Have a boundary between you and your character, right? Because your art is not in a vacuum when you are working with other people on set, and they're also doing their best to make the story come to life.
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And if you say no, the way I do, it is so much more effective and interesting. Therefore, if it makes your job harder to do your character, I don't care. I find that offensive. And I also see that most of the time method acting is either done by someone who hasn't trained in acting, especially like hasn't trained in a method, or it's done by people of privilege to, you know, movie stars.
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It's not done by - no one lets the extras be method, no one lets the supporting cast for the most part be method. It's always the person who's biggest on set. And I find that obnoxious because some of those people on set have to go from their day of working with you. The next day, they have to wait tables, and then the day after that, they come back to set to shoot another scene.
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And how dare you think that you are more important than those people telling the story. And while we're at it, I'm going to go ahead and just say to anyone listening is not clear. Do not ever physically engage your reader in an audition, and do not ever spit on your reader in an audition. Am I right on with that?
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Absolutely, absolutely. I mean, here's the thing is that if I, I don't allow weapons, I'm pretty weapon shy. I don't I'm not alone in that. I don't allow weapons in my audition room. If you don't know how to hold your hands out with the same power you would have with a gun, I don't know what to do with you on set.
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Because, you know, if you're playing the Hulk, what are you going to say? Like, oh, I, I need to feel how big and how it feels to be so big in order to do my job. Like, no, the, the whole job is imagination. You know, you play Peter Pan. You don't need to know how it feels to fly when you come in tournament audition.
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You better know how to do all that stuff without doing it. You better know how to make it feel like you spit on me without spitting on me. That's more interesting, I think, to make the audience feel like they've been slapped without slapping them, to make the audience feel like this has happened. That's more interesting to me than having to do it.
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Yeah, because as Mads Mikkelsen says, who played Hannibal, you know, what are you going to do if you play a serial killer? You're just going to go try that out for a little while. You know, you're playing a heroin user. You're going to go do some heroin. You're cutting your acting career short to the point where you're going to do one job and then die, and there's no fun in that.
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You get more interesting as you get older. So, you know, I tell actors to save their best work for their like 60s. Yeah, yeah. But that's my method tie right? I just I see it all the time these days and it's unkind and it's selfish. Yeah. And borderline dangerous too. It reminds me of like, like not only in the world of acting, but entertainment in general.
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The doing these things like, like the deaths that happened on the set of a midnight rider, that William Hurt movie where he's like, oh, well, whatever, let's just go to the train tracks. Let's just go to the train. Of course, goddamn came down the fucking set and killed someone like, we can't, we can't. I, I'm a huge Benedict Cumberbatch fan.
00;31;18;02 - 00;31;39;13
I love his work. And as far as I can tell, I think he's a great guy. I've never met him, but I did take offense to the fact that he could ignore and be unkind to Kirsten Dunst on a set because he's playing method, but then he goes and plays Doctor Strange. And how do you do methods for that, dude?
00;31;39;16 - 00;32;01;21
Like, you're gonna you're going to move some stuff with your mind today to just get in character. And so, yeah, I, I just see it hurting sets and I see it hurting actors. And I see actors thinking that it's the answer to getting an Academy Award. And it makes me so sad. A little bit of that is on the directors as well to bring it in.
00;32;01;23 - 00;32;21;13
Absolutely. Like I saw that on my set. I, you know, I would I would create parameters in order to protect everybody. I think I think directors, good directors, understand that they are the shepherd of the set. They set the tone. It's going to be a kind set. It's going to be a communicative set. It's going to be a safe set.
00;32;21;13 - 00;32;42;12
It's going to be, you know, when we have a gun on set, we are going to have everyone check that guy and we are going to make sure certain things are in place so that the actors feel like they because it's really hard to act any time, but it's especially hard to act if you don't feel safe. It's hard to act when you think the director's hitting on you.
00;32;42;12 - 00;32;59;13
It's hard to act when you think your costar is hitting on you. It's hard to act when you feel like someone's going to put a gun in your face, or they haven't learned their fight choreography and might kick you in your shin where you already had an injury. I mean, it is the director who who sets the tone and the producers.
00;32;59;13 - 00;33;21;13
I think, because everyone looks up to them to, you know, steer the ship and you don't want to go, you know, iceberg hunting. In that case, that's not a time to, like, look for danger. The danger happens in your head. It shouldn't be happening on set. Love it. That sounds so cheesy. No, I mean, I believe it.
00;33;21;13 - 00;33;43;23
I think that we need, you know, we've seen what happens when we disregard those things, and. It's okay. That's right. Master, some of the cheesiest things I'm finding as I get older are just plain true. Like when you were talking about hope and imagination, I'm like, yeah, like Brett, I know, you know, I'm a little cynical deep down, but I'll be damned that hope and imagination have really gotten me through that moment.
00;33;43;23 - 00;34;08;26
So sometimes it's just true, even though it's cheesy. I had a great teacher in graduate school, Gordon Hunt, who's Helen Hunt's dad, but also an incredible director in his own right, and he sadly passed a while ago. But he sat us down and said, why do you act? Tell me in like one sentence and it kind of became all of our mantras a little bit.
00;34;08;26 - 00;34;31;14
And it also became kind of what we would be known for. I mean, one of my best friends in grad school said, I just think that people need to laugh. And I mean, she's hilarious. She's that's what she does now. She makes people laugh. And when it came to me, I very tellingly said, because I think stories are the most important thing we have.
00;34;31;16 - 00;34;57;16
And it's telling because then I, I didn't talk about myself as a performer or why I act. I talked about storytelling and then eventually I got into storytelling in a different way. But I do when I get because I get cynical and I get fed up with the industry. I think we all do. And there's days where you're just like, this is such bullshit, this is such bullshit, and we're all stressing out over something that's not even going to be a thing.
00;34;57;19 - 00;35;29;00
And going back to the idea that stories throughout the ages, I mean, we were telling stories around fires to get people pumped up to go to hunt, and they've always been tools that we need to get because reality is awful. So we need stories to get us through reality, and that's important enough to me that on the bad days I keep going.
00;35;29;03 - 00;35;48;25
But you have to find something like that that you really do believe about. The industry that keeps you going, keeps you telling your stories. Otherwise this industry will just beat you up every single day. And eventually you'll say, I don't need this anymore, and you'll go be an accountant. Well, now I have to ask Brett, why do you act?
00;35;48;27 - 00;36;14;24
Yeah. Brett. Oh, well, somebody did pose this question to me recently, and truly, not to piggyback too much off of what Coco just said, but I in second or third grade in the classroom, I'm look at it just organically being me. Everyone is boy, they are laughing at every sentence I'm saying and boy, that feels good, I want more.
00;36;14;25 - 00;36;44;06
What else can I do? And it just so organically it was like school play. Oh that felt good. Next next next next. So for me it was making people laugh and then finding that to be joyful for me and them almost became my life's purpose. It's comedy based for me. It's humor and sharing the human experience in a way that is funny and meaningful and that saves lives.
00;36;44;06 - 00;37;11;01
Spread. Yeah, it really does. I mean, I don't know if anyone who was, no, I do know that people who listen to your podcast, because they're actors have dealt with depression, anxiety, mental illness of any kind, and and there have been times where I've had a bad day and gone into a movie and been able to let go and laugh and not not, you know, think about the nature of the universe.
00;37;11;01 - 00;37;35;15
It doesn't have to be one of those movies. It could be, you know, stupid movie. I mean, LA story is one of my favorites to watch when I'm having bad times, because Steve Martin so clearly loves LA and so clearly loves movies and storytelling, but also it's just a stupid movie that you can laugh at and when you're done laughing, you feel that catharsis, right?
00;37;35;17 - 00;37;57;10
Like, we've all been to comedy shows where you laugh your head off and then you leave feeling like you the same feeling you'd have if you cried and got it all out. You. It's medicine. It's life. So I think that's such a valuable path to be on. Brett. And and so like when it's hard you can lean on that, you can say, no, it's valuable.
00;37;57;13 - 00;38;20;14
Unknown
I can lean on it. And you're right. It is. It's healing and it's saving to perhaps the audience, but also you as the individual, which is quite something. I mean, it's healing to me to express myself in that way, you know. So and when you're on, you feel like a better person. I do, yeah, I do, I do because when I'm off, I'm off and that feels low and yeah, yeah.
00;38;20;14 - 00;38;43;15
Feels, lazy or low or dark. I'm on. I'm like, oh, I'm creative, I'm funny. I'm on. This is me, this is really me. It's sometimes that work, but it's really who I am. And there's a pep to my step when I'm on in that way. Not that it's always easy, but no one can take away my expression and my sharing myself.
00;38;43;15 - 00;39;04;25
So as long as I have that, I pretty much think I can get through this crazy kind of freelance actor writer. Funny. Well, I can kind of figure it out because I I'm betting on myself, and that takes courage for me to even announce today. Like, because maybe 3 or 4 years ago, I don't know that I would even understand that I'm betting on myself.
00;39;04;25 - 00;39;21;18
But now I get it and I'm proud of myself because I'm betting on myself, on my future. I believe, I believe in me. So then fuck all y'all like I believe I'm a do me like. But. But if I lose that I'm going to worry Coco and me shopping. If I don't believe in myself, what am I doing?
00;39;21;21 - 00;39;48;07
And that's the thing. I mean, you, you guard your hope and and then you're going to be fine. And it's it doesn't matter who who else jumps on that bandwagon, but it will bring people to that bandwagon. Yeah. Because when actors come in and they audition for me and it's because they got an audition and they, they told their agent they'd confirm, and then they memorize their lines and they did the audition.
00;39;48;09 - 00;40;04;07
That's one thing when an actor comes in and they want the role and they know that they should have it and they have that confidence. And like, I don't know if you guys think I should have it, but I think I should have it. And here's why those people stand out to me, whether they get the role or not.
00;40;04;07 - 00;40;26;09
I mean, those are the actors where I then get angry if I can't give them the role and I bring them in for the next five projects to see if I get them something from there. And so I do think that that it's weird to say that that attitude does affect your success, but it does because people respond to passion.
00;40;26;12 - 00;40;46;13
And when they can see that you're passionate, it's like, oh, I want to be around this person. I want to know what their deal is. So yeah, right. What passion and showing, leaning into your special sauce, leaning into. Yes. Organic you that's it. Just be you Brett. Because it feels good for you and the person across the way.
00;40;46;15 - 00;41;03;13
But also you've done a lot of work to get to know who you are a lot, a lot. And and that's something that some actors sign up for acting and don't realize that that's part of the job. And then they that really freaks people out sometimes. If I could drop this mic without breaking it, that would be a mic drop.
00;41;03;17 - 00;41;29;25
Yeah, but it is. Yeah. I mean, you have to know everything about yourself because other people will pointed out to you, and it'll either reinforce it for you and in a good way, or it'll devastate you. I know when I enter a room what people will think of me, and that's good, because then not only if they think the good things, I understand the good things about me.
00;41;29;25 - 00;41;48;19
I understand the bad things about me. And so when they see the bad things, I. It doesn't tell me, you know, when the first time. I mean, this is the industry of old and hopefully not the industry as much today. But when I was 14, I got my first agent and the first thing I was told was to lose weight.
00;41;48;22 - 00;42;11;00
And it devastated me. I had never I mean, it, I never thought of that as being important to who I was on the inside. But now if a director told me to lose weight, I'd be like, well, I mean, this is what you get, my ass. Sorry, but here we're all doing the best we can, and this is what you're going to get.
00;42;11;03 - 00;42;37;24
And so understanding those things about yourself and accepting them are great. Knowing that certain things are going to be a bonus and sometimes a hindrance. You know, I mean, Charlize Theron had to fight against a lot of things to get, monster because she understood that what we see on the outside is supermodel, and for us to see what she wanted to give us, she had to work hard to change that.
00;42;37;27 - 00;43;00;21
And God knows, you know, every actor of color I really protect and root for because they have to deal with 100 years of us thinking only white people belong on TV and film, and that's a lot of things to deal with. And so you have to own, like, yeah, I'm going to enter the room and you're going to see, a person of color.
00;43;00;24 - 00;43;15;21
So that doesn't affect how I tell stories. That doesn't affect how good or right I am to the role. But that's something you have to accept first or we can't. Powerful.
00;43;15;21 - 00;43;43;15
Thank you so much for listening to film on tape. If you like the way that I approach the industry, check out our other classes. Consulting and mentorship at ClubVermilion.com. Vermilion is a home for artists and those looking to expand creatively. Whether you're an actor, film professional, an entrepreneur, or a CEO, we'll help you find your voice and hone your skills to thrive in any market at any scale.
00;43;43;17 - 00;43;57;04
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