00;00;01;09 - 00;00;26;14
Unknown
Welcome to Film on Tape, a free audio library for creatives in film and television. My name is Misha Calvert, and I've worked as an actor, writer, director and producer for many decades. I had so many questions when I was first getting started in New York, and I just wanted fast, free answers. That is what this library is for.
00;00;26;14 - 00;00;47;22
Unknown
The work that you do as a creative. It's so important. I really hope that this library is going to help get your work out there. Film on tape is sponsored by Vermillion, a coaching and educational company for creatives. You can learn more at Club vermilion.com. So this week I have a special episode for you starring Ray Spielberg and myself.
00;00;47;22 - 00;01;18;02
Unknown
We were guests on a podcast called Show Don't Tell. Hosted by a filmmaker named Noam Kroll, who does really cool interviews with people in the industry, working filmmakers and actors and so on. Ray and I talked all about pink flags. We talked all about the making of the film, the idea to the development, to the production and our friendship, and also what it was like to work with Sawyer Spielberg, who's Steven Spielberg son, and what that was like for me, really one of the highlights of my career so far, working with this amazing creative couple.
00;01;18;05 - 00;01;37;29
Unknown
So we've got the whole episode for you here. I really, really hope that you enjoy it and if you do, drop me D and let me know what you thought of the conversation. I'm really excited to talk about your short film. The story itself, like how how did it all come together or the concept, like the very kind of beginning origin story of the film?
00;01;38;01 - 00;02;01;21
Unknown
The origin story is that Rey and Sawyer were in my bedroom at my birthday party, and, they raised Ben a friend for over a decade, and they were like, we should make a film together. And I was like, okay. And she's like, yeah, you should write it and direct it, and we'll we'll be in it. And I was like, oh, wow, that's in my head.
00;02;01;21 - 00;02;20;25
Unknown
Like, I would love that. Like, I don't know what it's going to be about. I'm, you know, honestly, like Sawyer is great, but I was a little intimidated by him when I first met him. He's kind of the strong, silent type. And, and so I was really excited by the idea, but it took me a while to rea.
00;02;20;25 - 00;02;42;07
Unknown
I don't know if I ever told you this to find the confidence to really say yes in my head, and then when I said yes, finally, I just wanted to get from them, like, what do you want this movie to be about? What kind of movies do you like? You know, sky's the limit. And then Rey is a figure skater and a very, very good skater at that.
00;02;42;10 - 00;03;07;19
Unknown
And, I care about women's issues all the time. And so that kind of always finds its way in there. And then I thought, wouldn't it be fun to make Sawyer, the antagonist and make him kind of a villain of sorts? I want to hear Rey's sort of entry point as well, but you had already directed it looks like quite a few, just based on your IMDb, like shorts and TV material.
00;03;07;19 - 00;03;49;20
Unknown
So what was it that that felt sort of the most, like intimidating about this short film? Because you, it looks like, had quite a bit of experience already. Right? Yes. I had done many short films, I had done a number of series. I had sold a couple of short form series to different networks, and I think for this, I really put the pressure on myself to make it something that was, as cinematic as something that I would see in a movie theater or the, the gorgeous films that that to me are, like, truly at the top of, of the industry for caliber, like how they look production value, camera.
00;03;49;22 - 00;04;17;20
Unknown
So a lot of my work prior had been I started in comedy and just episodic and comedy, like it's a different look. It's not necessarily cinematic. It doesn't have to be. There's the different things that you're looking for. But with this, I really wanted to make something, cinematic. So yeah, no, that makes sense. Just like getting out of your comfort zone a little bit and trying something new, which is always daunting.
00;04;17;20 - 00;04;36;15
Unknown
And, Ray, how about you? As far as, like, wanting to do this project in that moment, I guess, at the party and, like, you know, pitching the idea of working together, was it just kind of on a whim? Is that something you'd been thinking about for a while? Like, yeah, I mean, I, I would say like I'm first and foremost like such a true collaborator.
00;04;36;15 - 00;05;21;20
Unknown
So I'm always looking for, like, how to collaborate with people. I, I remember just, just, Misha kind of, you know, like we we've always, we've always we've, we've been talking about working together for, for a while. And then we actually met in Costa Rica, and then we went like, went our separate ways. And, you know, after the trip and kind of just stayed in touch, but just Misha kind of started doing a lot of like stuff, you know, more a lot more directing and writing and all that stuff and the stuff I really love Misha's style, and I love like the weird and the behavior that she's able to, like,
00;05;21;20 - 00;05;42;21
Unknown
bring out in her characters. And also the comedy. Like, it's just such a, such a kind of comedy that is so unique and, thank you. And so, yeah, I when we were in Costa Rica together, I, I remember some of the pieces that she wrote were just so fun. And I was like, yeah, that's like so freaking fun.
00;05;42;23 - 00;06;04;02
Unknown
Yeah. So I think I don't the birthday party, all this stuff, I don't, I don't really quite recall what, how it happened, but I remember that, you know, a few weeks later, Misha was like, cool. So how about this? Yeah. And I was like, great, awesome. And sometimes, I mean, more often than not, I think that's how the best projects end up getting made.
00;06;04;02 - 00;06;22;29
Unknown
It's not like forced. It's just kind of this organic thing where you have a friend or whoever that you want to work with, and you respect each other's process and see the potential and and then it's more motivating to like go through the process, because making any film, whether it's a shorter feature, is obviously such an uphill battle.
00;06;22;29 - 00;06;50;25
Unknown
And there's there's always like so many challenges. So you want to be in it with somebody that is truly a good creative partner and that you have synergy with. And, yeah, I mean, that sounds amazing. And, you know, one question also for, for you, Misha, just on like working in the short form realm, you know, because I, I don't know too much about your TV background, but again, just from IMDb gets even directed, you know, multiple episodes of different shows and things like that.
00;06;50;25 - 00;07;13;23
Unknown
And a lot of filmmakers see short films as kind of like an audition to direct TV, let's say, or to direct a feature. But you had already done that. And, and then you continue to kind of work in this short form realm, which I love, and I do the same, like having done features. I'm I'm very much still, like, attracted to short form because it has its own kind of benefits.
00;07;13;23 - 00;07;39;11
Unknown
But but yeah, just as a whole, like stepping back from this individual film, like what do you like about shorts like and how does that contrast with some of your work kind of in, in TV and longer format? Yes. So the nice thing about short form is the terrible thing about short form, which is that there's no real money, there's no real way to monetize it.
00;07;39;14 - 00;08;10;07
Unknown
And as a result, there's no real stakes. I mean, for the main executive producer, the creator, sure. Like just the time sync, but no one really cares what you're doing. Yeah. And as a result, there's nowhere to go but up. And you can take extraordinary risks and do insane things. And creatively, we really have a super bold, strong voice because at the end of the day, if you flop, no one's going to care either.
00;08;10;07 - 00;08;36;26
Unknown
In fact, they probably expect that it will go nowhere. So it's this amazing open runway for basically whatever the heck you want to do. And let's not forget, TikTok is short form. Instagram Reels are short form content. And essentially these new creators, like the new wave of creation is web series like plenty of those have gone viral and been monetized.
00;08;37;01 - 00;09;15;22
Unknown
So yeah. Yeah. So there is we're we're discovering that through just amassing a certain amount of eyeballs that there is money and there's value there. And so if you want to reach for that, you know, that's that's a kind of a new frontier. But I think the anything goes is why I like short form. Yeah. Also it's kind of nice because you could just you know, you could always find like four days or three days even or six days to like out of your busy schedule to get a bunch of really, you know, great creative people together to create something.
00;09;15;22 - 00;09;41;28
Unknown
If you have a solid script and all of the parts aligned, but, it just doesn't. It's not a huge time commitment, so it makes it more attainable and easier to execute. Yeah. And I think to also all of that makes it that much more motivating to actually go and write something, because I talked to a lot of filmmakers that say, like, sure, I'd like to go make a feature or even like a very low budget DIY feature film.
00;09;41;28 - 00;10;03;25
Unknown
But like, I don't know if I could pull it off. So like, I don't I'm not even going to write the script because I'm not motivated. But with this short film, you could kind of see the light at the end of the tunnel a little bit more. And and like you said, you can pull it together in a couple of days if you need to and just figure out how to, you know, call in favors or do whatever it is which you can't do on like a, you know, 25 day feature film.
00;10;04;07 - 00;10;22;04
Unknown
But yeah, so, so as far as, like the project itself and what it looked like in terms of like the scope, you know, I don't know if you want to speak to budget or crew size or any of that stuff, but these are always like these kind of projects come together so differently. And obviously there's no two ways to make it short.
00;10;22;04 - 00;10;50;25
Unknown
So what did this one look like? Sort of on the page. Did it was it ambitious from the get go. Like just looking at, you know, looking at the teaser, it feels like super high production value and it has amazing locations and all of that. So yeah. So I'd love to just hear about like, the scope and, you know, if that was thought about, I guess while you're writing the film to make it producible or if you're just like writing the most creative thing you can and then figuring out why would I, why would I worry about making it producible?
00;10;50;27 - 00;11;16;06
Unknown
I mean, that's that's the producer's job. No, I'm just kidding. I was ostensibly a shoulder to shoulder with the producers, quote unquote, on this. I mean, I think I'm credit to this one. So, I take that responsibility seriously. Nevertheless, I constantly overwrite constantly too many locations and every script that I write. Incredibly ambitious. Insane, insane. She's not saying the word insane, which is what it was.
00;11;16;06 - 00;11;36;24
Unknown
It was from the start, and I kind of dialed it down a little bit, but like, also not really. I mean, it was it was truly like, I feel like we shot a feature. Yeah, yeah. In terms of the the size of the crew or the amount of production time and or just everything was just a big ordeal yet.
00;11;36;24 - 00;12;04;02
Unknown
And for the budget to like, we only ended up spending 50 cash. But for the deals that I negotiated, the actualized value of what they this would have cost from the vendors that we were working with was 300,000, which is a feature. And does that include post-production? The. Yes, the okay. So so that's roughly was it roughly sort of like half goes into production, half into post more or less or just for.
00;12;04;03 - 00;12;29;02
Unknown
No, no, it was mostly production. Yeah. And then I don't know, 30% post. Yeah. That makes sense. And it really does help your film stand out because, I mean, as we all know, like festivals are only more and more saturated every year with short films. And I've programed for some myself and like, you just see so much stuff come in that kind of looks all the same.
00;12;29;02 - 00;13;02;13
Unknown
And these days, like, everything looks pretty good. But when you see something that just is that has that like 10% edge on it, that's just that much, you know, more interesting looking or it does something different with the story of the performances, like you really do need to to stand out. And I'd love to talk about that a little bit just from both perspectives, like from, you know, the directing side, but also, you know, from the performance side, in terms of like bringing something new and kind of breaking new ground with the film and, and how, yeah, maybe some of the ways that you were able to achieve that.
00;13;02;20 - 00;13;26;22
Unknown
Well, I would just say, it was such an ambitious shoot on the production side, on my side, I was like, hey, like, all I have to do is, you know, show up. I mean, I actually put in three months of, training, intense training in before, I'm a ice skater, so I grew up ice skating.
00;13;26;22 - 00;13;55;17
Unknown
I'm I'm I'm like, you know, I've maintained, like, a certain level, except if you want to do, like, any tricks or jumps or spins or anything like that with, with any kind of consistency, then you have to be consistently skating. And I wasn't, you know, skating every day for a few years. So I got on the ice every morning for like three months leading up to the, you know, for five days shoot, four day shoot.
00;13;55;19 - 00;14;14;07
Unknown
And so there was actually a lot of work that I put into it. But I love I loved having an excuse to get to the ice. And I, by the way, I also broken a whole new pair of skates during that time, which if you're an ice skater or any kind of athlete like, you know, that's kind of incredibly, that's insane.
00;14;14;07 - 00;14;31;08
Unknown
So, yeah, everything about a, a about this was insane. But I knew Mischa was going to pull it off and I knew I could pull it off. And we're both very ambitious people, so we're just. So it kind of worked. But that's also, I think, really what it takes. And then obviously I want to hear, you know, Mischa, your perspective as well.
00;14;31;08 - 00;14;54;06
Unknown
But it's like that just going the extra mile, especially with the short film because you know, like I was getting to before, I think a lot of filmmakers just see shorts as kind of like, you know, a means to some other end, or it's like, you know, a bridge that's going to get them to something else, as opposed to thinking about, like, how can we just make this the most amazing piece of art on its own and like, not worry about what it leads to?
00;14;54;06 - 00;15;11;22
Unknown
And that's where it's like training to do all of what you did and like, you know, and that's obviously very complicated. That's what you would do for a larger feature film. So to do it for short and to take it just as seriously, I think, is that is one of the things that obviously is going to make the film stand out.
00;15;11;22 - 00;15;28;28
Unknown
And and also just like not limiting the scope and limiting the world and, and having something like as unique as just ice skating or just the world itself, I think can, you know, when you don't see there's so many trends that we see, like at festivals every year, like certain topics or themes or worlds that are being explored.
00;15;28;28 - 00;15;51;10
Unknown
But when it's something that I think is like kind of personal or actually rooted in your own experience, that tends to, by definition, make it that much more special and I think catch people's attention. And yeah, I mean, I'd love to know about like, yeah, Misha, just as you're directing the film and kind of going through this process, like what?
00;15;51;13 - 00;16;09;14
Unknown
Whether it was like from a story perspective or visually, like what were some of the things that you were really leaning on as kind of the, you know, the big like selling features to, so to speak, of the movie, the big like hooks that that you knew were going to kind of make or break the the final result.
00;16;09;16 - 00;16;55;04
Unknown
Well, I will also start by saying I'm very guilty of wanting this to be a stepping stone. I think it's an end in and of itself. And it is a means to an end. And a little bit of that is good and a little bit of that is bad, I think. But I'm like in process as a filmmaker of always, still finding my confidence and finding that my voice is enough and that I don't need someone to approve it or validated or sort of institutional validation, like, I'm in process with that of of finding a way to to stand on my own two feet creatively without needing that validation.
00;16;55;06 - 00;17;18;19
Unknown
So, I don't know if that's going to resonate with anyone, but that's truth, you know, for sure. What was the question? Well, I guess I'm just thinking, like, I don't know if if if you feel like this when you when you direct something, but I know, at least lately when I have a project I'm directing, I often, I often come back to that idea of like what makes this different?
00;17;18;19 - 00;17;48;07
Unknown
Like, what is it about this? That's, you know, what? What are the special qualities about the film that I could really play into that are going to make it stand out and going to sort of play into my strengths and abilities and all those things. You know, I'm sure that you probably considered. Yeah. I think I have a sort of hallucinogenic approach to feminism and also actual feminism, because a lot of times we'll see signaling of that in film and TV.
00;17;48;07 - 00;18;30;15
Unknown
And it's it's actually still pretty male gaze or pretty playing into to stereotypes about women. And I think, I like to actually get in the head of the female protagonists or ensemble and, that can look really weird. It can look really, dark. It can be really raw and funny and unglamorous. Or in the case of pink flags, we go into this, we go into the mind of Liberty, played by Ray, and we see a pink void, a white void that turns pink, and then that's her inner world.
00;18;30;18 - 00;18;56;25
Unknown
And we spend some time there, and, there's no real explanation of it ever. We just are in the quote, real world. And then we're in her brain, which is a Pink Floyd. Yeah. Welcome to my head. I love that, though. I love the that sort of surreal, like, whatever you want to call it, that motif that you can build in that just creates its own distinct language.
00;18;56;25 - 00;19;13;23
Unknown
And those are the things that I think really stick with people visually, because it is a visual medium, and obviously you're telling a story, but in order for for it to connect and resonate like there's so much that can be done visually that, yeah, if you can kind of break new ground in that way, as it sounds like you did.
00;19;14;10 - 00;19;38;03
Unknown
And yeah, that's really where your own voice and tone and style, I think comes out. And so one of the things I want to ask you about, because I rarely get to have a, actor and director together on the podcast. And I was really excited to to have you both here for that reason, because I like to me the most important element, like, I love writing, I love camera, all those things.
00;19;38;03 - 00;20;01;17
Unknown
Like, we all like all of it, I guess if we're in filmmaking. But but it really is. It's the acting. It's the performances. And and you know, that is what I personally like. I, I, you know, do it for like I love that collaboration. And I think every collaboration between every director and actor has its own little nuances and, and evolves, you know, over time.
00;20;01;17 - 00;20;31;20
Unknown
You obviously both knew each other and were friends. But what did that look like as far as working together and collaborating and. Yeah, maybe, Ray, if you want to jump in on this, and I'm scared. Was there any different? You said if you don't get this right, you know, it just felt very organic. And, I really felt like I had someone in my corner who, like, really wanted it to be great and wasn't, you know, just, like, really rooting for me.
00;20;31;20 - 00;21;01;05
Unknown
I guess, and had a lot of confidence in me. And so that was awesome. Yeah, I felt like we were just a really good team. What about like the collaborative process as far as like because you said you had time to do all of the training and the skating and everything, so was there more like rehearsal time than usual, or was there anything different in terms of just like working out the material or giving input on dialog or any of that sort of stuff?
00;21;01;08 - 00;21;28;23
Unknown
Yeah, there was a lot of, a lot of, choreography. So there was some really cool fight choreography, you know, workshops that we did together. And meta was there for all of them, and we worked with, an amazing trainer, Misha. What's her name again? Caitlin Farley. Caitlin Farley, she's so great. She's so great. Yeah. She was she was just a boss.
00;21;29;25 - 00;21;51;10
Unknown
And it was it was really fun because I, you know, I get I have a skating background, but also dancing, and it's oftentimes it's one in the same. It's dancing on ice. But it was really fun to, to work on that choreography and get it in our bodies before we shoot. Shot. So there was a lot of rehearsal.
00;21;51;12 - 00;22;15;05
Unknown
It was a lot of physical rehearsal and emotional and all of the things. Yeah, yeah. Shout out to New York combat for stage and screen for the incredible fight correo that they did. Caitlin and her assistant, Sophie Reshevsky. I think I wrote the part for Ray. I wrote it for her. So from the beginning, her DNA was all over it.
00;22;15;05 - 00;22;37;12
Unknown
And, that's one of my preferred ways to write, is to have an actor in mind already. And, you know, obviously, Liberty is not Ray. She's different. She's a part of Ray. But we're a, I don't know, a spin off. But it was really easy, I think, hopefully easy for Ray to connect to Liberty because I had her in mind from day one.
00;22;37;14 - 00;22;57;24
Unknown
Yeah, I did that translate to kind of a more fluid work flow on set and just like a, you know, easier process. Whereas if there's any such thing, I guess when you're making a film or was it, did it feel the same once you got on set as, you know, anything else that you directed? Oh, for me it was much better.
00;22;57;24 - 00;23;19;25
Unknown
I mean, I don't know about Ray. I will find out, but, I had a really beautiful time working with her. And, you know, by contrast, I didn't know Sawyer before the movie. But I was able to kind of parlay my comfort with Ray and extend it to him so that I just felt great. I also felt taken care of.
00;23;20;02 - 00;23;43;02
Unknown
I translated everything for. Okay, okay, I'm getting you guys had your own special kind of like, you know, creative working together. And I didn't want to interfere with that, you know, like, he was a part of this, you know, and he was a, an actor in a separate from me at that point, you know? And so were you guys metal met a few times.
00;23;43;02 - 00;24;05;08
Unknown
And from what I heard, I got wind up and and worked through it together. So, you know, Eamon was this whole other character. But with my character. Yeah. I mean, I really just. Yeah, it was so great working with Mischa. I really felt supported and like encouraged. And I was like, I was, you know, we together created that role.
00;24;05;08 - 00;24;24;02
Unknown
I felt like it was a true collaboration because, I was like, I was constantly checking in with her, like, you know, did you get what you want? But I could see she was also like, doing one of the more ambitious things, you know, in a four day period. So I was like, also wanting to just be ready when she was ready for me.
00;24;24;02 - 00;24;46;11
Unknown
And really just be the best collaborator possible. I love being an actor and taking direction and, like, just being in that. You were a machine where every single day only you were great. And. Yeah, working with Sawyer, like, anytime you work with someone that you're that close to, it's like. I mean, everyone has a different experience, obviously with it.
00;24;46;11 - 00;25;06;10
Unknown
So what was that like? Did that was that helpful in terms of I haven't seen the whole film yet, so I don't know how scenes are like together, or what have you. But yeah, I'm curious to know about like how that translated I guess. Yeah. I mean I think I definitely had to like, you know, use some other personalization.
00;25;06;11 - 00;25;31;26
Unknown
Like I, I love it like I'm a performer, I, I perform on the ice and off the ice and when you're ice skating you don't have a voice, but you have your body to express stuff. And so it's like a voiceless performer kind of thing, which is an interesting. Anyway. So I'm kind of tangent here, but my point is that, when you're ice skating, it's so performative and you want to perform for an audience.
00;25;31;28 - 00;25;54;13
Unknown
However, whenever you have like an audience member or a gaze on you that feels uninvited or off, you know, like then that's when it least liberties like centers went up in arms and it's just like. Or just like, you know, like, whoa, wait, something feels different. Like there's a I'm skating in a stadium. People are supposed to watch me.
00;25;54;13 - 00;26;24;20
Unknown
That's something that I do, that I want, that's called for in this performative field. However, I'm getting unwanted, you know, whatever. And so for Sawyer to play that role, obviously I had to, like, personalize it some as someone else or another kind of entity. But it was far enough from, from the truth of like my relationship with Sawyer, that it was really fun to play that out with him.
00;26;25;08 - 00;26;47;23
Unknown
And, yeah. So, for example, there's another there's another project that actually I got cast in opposite Sawyer and most recently and he and I decided that it was best if, you know, if my role was so small, but very impactful. But he and I decided that was best, that I didn't do the role because it was.
00;26;47;23 - 00;27;14;24
Unknown
So it was a what what played out was actually like a, breakup, not only breakup, but a divorce between a married couple. And he's like. And we both decided, you know, that's not something we wanted to live through in this moment. So we are very careful with the things that we take on together to play with together and protective over, obviously, like our relationship, our marriage or whatever, but also wanting to play and have fun.
00;27;14;24 - 00;27;43;25
Unknown
And I feel like this project with Misha allowed us to really, like, go somewhere else with each other, where we weren't each other anymore. It was far. I love that, I had no idea. That's cool. You know that that's that's really well said. And and doing so in a way that, that, you know, kind of expands your horizons but still feels like, in a way that you want it to, like you said, you maybe didn't wouldn't want to take on a role where it's like extreme.
00;27;43;25 - 00;28;12;17
Unknown
And I think a lot of, a lot of filmmakers, like, they sort of don't in my opinion, they don't have enough empathy for the actors process and like what they actually bring back home with them sometimes, especially with like, very emotionally charged roles and things like that. And then when you're working with your spouse or like someone close to you that you're living with and like just to to go through that and then, you know, a lot of filmmakers would probably think like, oh, well, they're just actors.
00;28;12;17 - 00;28;39;06
Unknown
They kind of like, turn it on and turn it off. But it's like there's so much prep that goes into it, and then there's so much like unwinding from the roles and like decompressing and and yeah, I think the way that you describe that is, is hopefully really helpful, especially for any, any actor is listening. Yeah. I actually have a, a course, a workshop on called actor Self-care that I filmed and that you can take as a workshop because I have such empathy for actors.
00;28;39;17 - 00;29;04;22
Unknown
Having been one my whole life before being a director. So I don't just quick plug if you want to take that course. Actor self-care go to Club vermilion.com and I have all my courses there that that speak exactly to this issue. Yeah. Well that's amazing you put that together. I had no idea. And and I mean, I, I'm, I'm interested to know more about your acting background because I think that might be something that we have in common.
00;29;05;06 - 00;29;24;27
Unknown
I, I also like from a very young age, I was into acting. And then as a teenager, kind of like transitioned, you know, more into the filmmaking side. But, I don't know if you relate to this, but like, for me, I was more grateful than anything that I had the acting background more than camera or editing or any of the other things that I did.
00;29;24;27 - 00;29;46;12
Unknown
Because like I said before, it's for me, it's like the number one thing, the number one role of of a director and number one tool to sort of tell your story through are are collaborative actors and your cast. But but also I just think it, it helps you have a better eye for kind of an authentic performance and in the right performance, the right casting.
00;29;46;14 - 00;30;24;11
Unknown
So I'd love if you could speak to a little bit about your acting background as well. Mischa, and like how that has informed whether like consciously or just unconsciously, your process as a director. Yeah, for sure. There's a lot to say, but I'll try and keep it brief. I think with so many other art forms, you can have a beautiful picture or a beautiful sound or a beautiful smell or whatever, but with stage and screen, everything really, if it's narrative is about relationships and you can have the other elements of landscape and inanimate objects and so on, colors.
00;30;24;18 - 00;31;02;13
Unknown
But the pieces that we love at its core, it's about a relationship. So for that, you have to have actors and you have to have them relating to each other. So I think that's one thing that, for me elevates stage and screen above all other art forms, is that you're combining basically all, all the other arts into this one type of, of creative expression and with with human interaction and relating at its core.
00;31;03;13 - 00;31;26;18
Unknown
I think as kids, if we have that creative spark, like from birth, which almost all of us do, based on studies, but for those of us that are drawn to world building and performance, the avenue that's available to us is typically acting. Maybe it's different now, I don't know, I don't have kids now, Ray. You could speak to that.
00;31;26;18 - 00;31;49;13
Unknown
But, when I was growing up, there weren't a lot of, like, content creators. And there certainly weren't a lot of female filmmakers. I knew of none until I was like 30. So, I think the thing that just we have exposure to is acting. And then that's why so many of us grew up doing theater, community theater or whatever.
00;31;49;15 - 00;32;16;17
Unknown
And then that as we get older, there's more avenues available to create. It echoes, like so many of my own feelings about, like, just what you said about filmmaking, kind of encapsulating all of the art forms, like it's music, you can have dance, you can have skating, you can have painting, you know, but at all like the performance and the narrative of the, that the actors ultimately carry is what is the glue that holds it all together?
00;32;16;17 - 00;32;35;22
Unknown
And, yeah, I just, I love that that, you know, you put it that way. And what about, like, your entry into acting? Ray, because I, I totally relate to me. Sure. Like, I know for a fact, like the reason I started it was not knowing I really wanted to be a filmmaker, but having no idea.
00;32;35;29 - 00;32;58;17
Unknown
Like, I didn't even know there was such thing as a director. I just thought the actors, like, made it up, you know, as they went along. So I just, you know, started getting okay. Well, sometimes I guess depends where getting, can, but, but yeah, for you, it's, you know, it's obviously a different entry point for somebody who, who is, like, destined to, you know, that's their thing.
00;32;58;17 - 00;33;15;29
Unknown
Like they're it's not a means to get to some other part of the process. Right. So so yeah, I'd love to know about like how you kind of got into it and, and what's kind of kept you grounded like through these years because it's, it's really like, you know, it's a tough, tough job being an actor. And I don't think people appreciate that.
00;33;16;02 - 00;33;43;18
Unknown
I mean, I would say I'm a masochist and I love rejection. So, I guess, yeah. I mean, what, a friend of mine once said she's in casting, and she and she was just like, you know, you just have to see every audition as, like, you got the job, and then that's in. And if they want you to continue the job, then you continue the job.
00;33;43;18 - 00;34;21;18
Unknown
But in that moment your that's your job to to do the audition. And anyway and so I I've really loved I, I love auditioning and I also really admire all the actors out there who like just take on not every project, but but just love to work, I guess. Anyway, so going back to my origins, though, I knew I wanted to be an actor before I knew it was like even a job, that you could get paid for because I thought it was just like play.
00;34;21;21 - 00;34;50;01
Unknown
And, I had a few moments in growing up where I was where I had an opportunity to kind of like, dive headfirst into it at a younger age. At a young age. And I, I kind of, chickened out, I would say, or like, got scared of, of diving in headfirst because I had I didn't have an, you know, actors, a career modeled for me at all.
00;34;50;01 - 00;35;09;21
Unknown
And it wasn't a bad thing that it wasn't, but it it, I'm, you know, I, I needed I at a very young age, I was like, I, I was like, this is play for me. This is fun. And then I have to do, like, hard work like everybody else to like, you know, the math and science and I don't know, whatever.
00;35;09;29 - 00;35;32;05
Unknown
And so I, like I got into a professional performing arts school, I did a song and a dance, and I was so excited. And then I ended up saying, okay, I got in so I could do it. I'm going to do it after I do all my academic stuff. And then I got into LaGuardia for drama, and I, I had a song and dance and multiple callbacks, and I got in and then I ended up not going because I was like, okay, cool.
00;35;32;05 - 00;35;50;15
Unknown
I got in. So I'm, I always have that like, I'm, I'm going to do that, but I have to do it after I do all my academic academic stuff. So I, I yeah, I mean, I definitely have like a roundabout way back into acting and I didn't realize how like hard it would be to kind of break into later on.
00;35;51;28 - 00;36;13;19
Unknown
So if anyone has the bug and they're, they're young or their daughters and sons or kids have the bug, I say just like full on, go into it like, why not? Maybe wait until, you know, a little bit older, like, you know, like, because you don't want to get into it too young and then have this, like, spike of whatever, but I, I don't know.
00;36;13;19 - 00;36;31;08
Unknown
Anyway, I, I it just was like so much fun to me that I couldn't understand how, you know, work was work and hard. And that's what I equate it to work and, but I but as soon as like I was like, you know, old enough to speak, I was like, I want to be an actor, an actress, waitress.
00;36;31;08 - 00;36;50;06
Unknown
And that's my, my dream. And, and I would, I would I knew because I always like, wanted to read lines with my sister and I would write these scripts and she would have she was like, so boring for her. And I was like, okay, if this is so exciting for me, like, there's something here. And I, I just love the play of it.
00;36;50;06 - 00;37;12;27
Unknown
I love the collaboration. I feel like actors are the center of so many different, creative influences, like of the director, the writer, the producer, you know what I mean? All of these things come down to how it translates through the actor and I. And so I just wanting to collaborate with people that's like, I get to be at the epicenter of it all.
00;37;13;00 - 00;37;33;25
Unknown
And I and I think, like, you know, you don't have control over what you say all the time, but you do have control over you have, you know, 90% control because you have control over how you say it. And 90% of, you know, the meaning is is the majority of it. The meaning is the thing, the meaning makes it what it is.
00;37;33;25 - 00;38;08;04
Unknown
And, and and I love the, the wordplay and how you can take one sentence and say it so many different ways and it literally so many different meanings. So that to me is really exciting. And just like the chemistry between people and playing with that and the, and just studying behavior and. Yeah. So, yeah, I'm, I'm totally in love with it and I'm, I'm venturing a little bit and into producing myself just because I'm, I started I've started this, I started this production company.
00;38;08;06 - 00;38;30;14
Unknown
It's called left No ring. It's, a reference to Shakespeare, but, it's also just like, yeah, because just because I want to have more control over, like, the projects that I do get to do. Yeah. And yeah, that's it. I know that that makes so much sense, and I, I love how the way that you kind of described it.
00;38;30;27 - 00;39;03;16
Unknown
Again, I relate to just in your description of, like, you kind of this roundabout way of, like, always circling around and coming back to performance and feeling like, like when you describe, like you didn't know, like, you know, it could be a job. And that's how I felt with filmmaking. Like, I didn't know any filmmakers like. So I sort of always just thought like it's just a hobby or it's something like, I'll, you know, I'll study psychology when I go to university and then I'll, I'll like, maybe I'll make films on the side for fun and, and then I but I think sometimes everyone's different.
00;39;03;16 - 00;39;30;13
Unknown
But I think sometimes if you take the path that you did, you end up in a better place for you because you're not going through the usual kind of like, you know, avenues that you're supposed like, quote, supposed to take, that end up sometimes, you know, kind of like burning people out or turning them off of the process and where, like making them operate in a way that's counterintuitive because there's so many ways to work as an actor.
00;39;30;13 - 00;39;51;10
Unknown
And like you said, you could produce your own material, and, or you could you could not where you could work, you know, in theater, or you could work in film. Like, you know, there's so many nuances and gradations of all the different things that we do. So when you're kind of just staying true to like your inner voice of like, no, I just keep coming back to this because this is what I want to do.
00;39;51;10 - 00;40;12;05
Unknown
I don't necessarily need to go through this program or through whatever to get there. Then you find like the things that piece together in the way that best suit your career. And, and I think like going into producing is obviously a natural extension of that because it's, it's there, you know, it's separate from your acting, but it also serves your acting.
00;40;12;05 - 00;40;41;29
Unknown
And like, you learn so much about performance and the business of film and acting and casting and all that stuff, just from being on the other side of it. And yeah, that's all I think really helpful for people. She didn't say, is it she's she's been producing for Broadway. Okay. Oh well, well, well I well first I did do a, a training after, so I ended up going to architecture school after architecture school, I went to a Williams for studio for acting.
00;40;42;00 - 00;41;07;09
Unknown
So I was like, okay, I got to break into my body and my my, you know, get out of my head a little bit. And be silly and playful and all the stuff, but so, yeah, I, I did do the two year training program and then after that, like, tons of classes, maybe because I'm an addict and I love, like, meeting other actors and playing with them and stuff like that and learning about new material and all the stuff.
00;41;07;11 - 00;41;31;22
Unknown
So I have a lot of acting training as well. So yes. Okay. But then in terms of producing, I got an up, I got an, a cool opportunity to be on a co-producing team for, Operation Mincemeat. It's opening February, previews opened February, and then it's officially opening in March. March 20th in, at the John Golden Theater.
00;41;31;22 - 00;41;53;01
Unknown
And it's a it's a musical comedy. And I, I was able to kind of like, use my producing skills and it just, it's really great because of the team. I mean, they're they're from the UK because it, it it started. Well, it didn't start, but it got to the West End. And it's been running in the West End for now.
00;41;53;01 - 00;42;11;11
Unknown
It's going into its third year. It was extended like 11 times. And the and I really love the whole the backstory of this whole project because it started with like, group of five comedy act or like actors who are in this comedy troupe who were just like about to give up. And then they were like, why don't we just make our own stuff?
00;42;11;14 - 00;42;39;15
Unknown
And then they did, and they they made, you know, this whole musical, they wrote this whole up show, and it snowballed and, and got really popular and has this kind of cult following it, it won six Olivier Awards, including Best new musical of this year. And, and now it's coming to the John Golden Theater. Yeah. So I, I, I do I love singing, I actually really do love it.
00;42;40;19 - 00;43;03;25
Unknown
But I could see myself in like, for example, like stereophonic where it's like there's a singing element to the play that is, have play, musical theater having like, broken into as an actor. So I still, I feel like I'm able to produce some stuff like that where I can't necessarily I don't like think of myself first to, to be in it.
00;43;04;02 - 00;43;28;24
Unknown
I know we're running somewhat short on time, so I'll there's one question I want to get to. I ask all filmmaker is a version of this question, but I think this will be interesting just to hear from, you know, the actor perspective as well as the director, which is what makes somebody a good director age. Yeah. But, experience, I guess that's not really helpful to a young director.
00;43;29;22 - 00;44;04;28
Unknown
I think that what what we're doing here is a spiritual act. I think it's a multi-dimensional act. So speaking as somebody who likes the astral plane as much as the Earth plane, I think that artists have the capacity, unlike most other people on Earth, they have the capacity and the motivation to reach into other dimensions, to channel materials.
00;44;05;00 - 00;44;34;02
Unknown
That is, and that's a much more powerful act than just thinking like the human brain is great, but if you can really touch those other universes and with actors, the reason why actors are so central to the act, in addition to what we've been talking, all the reasons we've said already, actors are the ones embodying those other people in those other spirits and those other characters from from other worlds, I believe.
00;44;34;05 - 00;44;59;03
Unknown
So, a director, if they're able to tap into that alternate dimension and let it flow through you, instead of your good idea of how your ego thinks it needs to be it, it's you open yourself up to bigger forces. I think that's a really incredible trait to trust yourself enough to be that conduit. And then yeah, from from your perspective Ray.
00;44;59;06 - 00;45;35;13
Unknown
What like when you're working with the director, what makes them, you know effective to you. And what do you look for in a, you know on the, on a directing level. Yeah. Well just piggybacking off of what Misha said, just getting in or maybe saying in a different way, I really like, you know, you do all the work to find the character, but for me personally, it works best when I like, get out of my head and, and I get into that flow state and I'm just able to, like, really be free and play.
00;45;35;13 - 00;45;57;28
Unknown
And that's either when like, you know, I've really sunk into like certain emotional places. And I, I, and my emotions take over and I get out of my head that way, or I get really playful and I get in the flow in this flow state, you know, and kind of get out of my head that way. So like, yeah.
00;45;57;28 - 00;46;30;09
Unknown
So having a, having a director who and I've been, I feel like, oh, I've been so fortunate over the past few years, I've come across and started working with like a lot of really great directors like Misha, like, and especially, you know, certain women in my life, like, Caroline Keane, who I worked with on Mary Good Enough and Dan Kennedy, they both co-directed it together, but, Megan, enough together.
00;46;30;09 - 00;46;57;16
Unknown
But, you know, working with someone like Misha. What? I, okay. What I really appreciated working with Misha is that she kind of like, let me do my thing. She gave me the space, and then she was, like, very careful, not too careful, but, like, very particular about what she would say to me. And it would usually be just like, and, and I could I have a capacity to like, you know, take in whatever she has to say and all of the tangents and everything.
00;46;57;16 - 00;47;19;13
Unknown
But she was she made sure to be as it was like, it was like a well-oiled machine, like very, very precise. There's a certain amount of precision in her directing where it was just like, I'm going to give you that and and then walk away, you know, like add up, add like a drop of color to the paint and then like, walk away and just see what happened.
00;47;19;19 - 00;47;40;00
Unknown
And then I was like, oh, cool, okay, let's try that color, you know? And so there was like a certain freedom and like shorthand, I guess that's really interesting. Yeah. Sort of that, that perfect balance of giving you the freedom to explore and bring out whatever it is in the character that, that you're seeing, but also feeling that you're in good hands.
00;47;40;00 - 00;48;00;14
Unknown
And the director has a very clear vision so that you can kind of be creative within those parameters. Yeah, yeah. Oh, that that's really interesting. I trusted her, I trusted her to do it. So that's important. That's awesome. No, I, I love both of those answers. And I have tons more questions if we didn't have to go. So I'll let you I'll let you both run in a second.
00;48;00;14 - 00;48;29;02
Unknown
But before I do, if you can let us know, where we can follow you if you want to leave any like social media links or website, anything like that. Yeah. For sure. You can find me on social at at Misha Calvert, Misha Calvert and my websites, Misha Caricom and for my classes and consulting it's Club vermilion.com. Yeah mine is my my name RA Rae Spielberg.
00;48;29;02 - 00;48;41;29
Unknown
So at race Balbriggan my website's the same rate race field works. And yeah, my phone number is.
00;48;42;01 - 00;49;08;08
Unknown
Thank you so much for listening to film on tape. If you like the way that I approach the industry, check out our other classes. Consulting and mentorship at Clipper Macomb. Vermillion is a home for artists and those looking to expand creatively. Whether you're an actor, film professional, an entrepreneur, or a CEO, we'll help you find your voice and hone your skills to thrive in any market at any scale.
00;49;08;11 - 00;49;22;05
Unknown
You can schedule a free phone consultation at Club vermilion.com.
